Some information needed

[H4831]

I have this #4, MK2, which appears to be a very professional job of sportserizing. OK, I know what you guys call such things, but this is a really neat job of making it into a very handy rifle.
It has the word, "SUSSEX," roll stamped on the top of the barrel. I am wondering if this is the key to where the work was done, as it appears to be the work of an armoury.
It had the standard ten shot mag, but I put a five shot in it, as shown in the pictures.
I bought it about fifteen years ago at a gun show and there were three identical rifles on the table. The dealer's story was the guns had once belonged to the Toronto Police.
Also, does anyone know what the meaning of the, "57 FTR" just under the #4 designation?

 

[bearhunter]

Sussex, was a model name. I don't remember who did those conversions but yours has a modification that was done after the original sporterisation, the addition of the Lyman, adjustable sight. Hudson's Bay and Eatons, used to market them, amongst others.

 

[t-star]

ftr- factory thorough repair- if i remember correctly

 

[H4831]

Sussex, was a model name. I don't remember who did those conversions but yours has a modification that was done after the original sporterisation, the addition of the Lyman, adjustable sight. Hudson's Bay and Eatons, used to market them, amongst others.

Why would the rear sight be an after conversion?
The front sight is a modification and it is proper height to match the peep.
As I mentioned, all three rifles at the gun show were identical.

And thanks for your info, too, T-Star. That would mean the factory repair, likely conversion, would have been 1957.

I failed to mention that the barrel is about 19.5 inches.

 

[cosmic]

I believe these were done in England for some large chain in Canada. There were various models - Sussex, Surrey, Adanac, come to mind. They were equipped with various types of sights to suit the consumer. I had a No 1 Mk 111 that was likely done by the same conversion house - it had a nice Lyman peep on it, cost me 60 large at a gun show!
FTR refers to the military refurbishing - so you likely got a rifle with a close to new barrel...

 

[John Sukey]

Factory Thorough Repair was done when the government still owned the rifle, bringing it back to full military standard. The present rear sight was installed after it was surplused out.

 

[H4831]

Thanks guys, and the barrel looks like new, so that will be why.

 

[englishman_ca]

These were a commercial conversion done in England by the trade for export. As I understand from what I have been told, there were several different grades of rifle made available. The Essex being the base model and the Sussex having better woodwork. Some collectors mentioned that these were done by Parker Hale.

So ya, these could have well been purchased from a dealer and used by a Police Force.

 

[H4831]

These were a commercial conversion done in England by the trade for export. As I understand from what I have been told, there were several different grades of rifle made available. The Essex being the base model and the Sussex having better woodwork. Some collectors mentioned that these were done by Parker Hale.

So ya, these could have well been purchased from a dealer and used by a Police Force.

Thanks for that, it jibes with the the nice butt stock. Tha's about the best stock I've seen on a Lee Enfield.

 

[bearhunter]

Bruce, that butt is very nice. I've seen dozens of these rifles. Your rifle is the first I've seen with the Lyman rear sight. If there were a lot of them on the table, they might also have been club rifles. I've owned this model and the Surrey. Adanac was a Russian brand name on several of their exports, on things like stop watches and binoculars. It is just Canada spelled backwards. I can remember the rifles in the Sears catalogue and on tables in the Bay and Marshall Welles stores. The Lyman sight, IMHO is an add on. All of the rifles I had and remember seeing, had the flip type, two range sight. They are nice rifles and if the stock still fits tightly, it should shoot very well.

 

[Andy]

Cool gun - these show up quite often at gun shows and on CGN, and we get quite a few questions about the "Sussex" stamping. This is the best thread of explanations I've seen.

So can anyone post pics of the series: Sussex, Surrey, etc.?

 

[smellie]

Don't forget Essex! Base line of the series, it seems.

This rifle is a 1957 Factory Thorough Repair on a Number 4, bringing it back to full military spec. It was sold off from the service and made into a medium-high quality sporter.

Thing is, ALL of these that I have seen sport the standard Number 4 rear sight in one version or another. This is the first I have seen with what looks like a very professional job of installing a Lyman sight.

At a 19-1/2-inch barrel length, one of these would be just about ideal for stashing in the back of a police car and police forces of 40-odd years ago DID have full-power rifles. The RCMP, just for one example, had both Number 4s and C1s. This idea of a black plastic gopher-gun with 37 pounds of extra plastic crap hanging off it is very much a recent innovation, I think largely in response to the super-cool multi-flashing-lights approach popularised on American television.

It is entirely possible and rather likely that the Toronto Police would have a selection of Number 4 Rifles, being that these actually are a very low-maintenance item and they would have been kept until replacement by the black plastic gopher-guns with the 37 pounds of extra black plastic crap hanging off them which are just SO de rigeur for police forces nowadays.

I would suggest that the right people to ask about this rifle well could be the Toronto Police. If a reply from them is in the negative, then start looking for a different answer, but this is the option currently open and it seems logical to pursue. Police departments in Canada were not always dominated by the "Superman versus The Scum" mind-set which seems to prevail these days and, at one time, were quite content to sell their obsolete equipment to the general public. I recall being offered a chance at a whole heap of really nice old revolvers in .38S&W, all stamped "BCP": Brandon City Police. Really nice old guns, but they wanted to sell them ALL, and I couldn't afford 50 identical revolvers... so they went elsewhere.

But I really think the Toronto Police would be the logical place to start.

Super nice toy, though! Bet it's accurate as all get-out!

 

[H4831]

Thanks Smellie, I have a contact to get in touch with, so will do that.
You are so right about the police at one time disposing of their obslete guns. In the 1950s the RCMP were disposing of their formerly used 45 calibre revolvers. They were offering them to current members at that ime, for $5. each. A RCMP member who shot with us at our club, asked me if I would like one for $5, and said he would get me one if I wanted it.
OK guys, fire away at me! I really couldn't see what I would do with the 45 calibre revolver, so I declined the offer!

 

[t-star]

you can tell the surrey by the fringe on top( ok that was BAD)