Some questions about the really small stuff...

[greg11]

So, I'm just playing around with my .22lr lately trying to learn some things about wind. However I seem to be noticing some things with my .22lr and my .223 and I don't know if it's in my head, or if it's actually happening.

#1 - I don't know for sure, but I seem to notice a difference in POI depending on how much cheek pressure I put on the comb of my stock. Most importantly, with cheek pressure, my POI seems to be a little more wild than with none.

#2 - Sometimes I seem to notice that if I don't 'get behind' my rifle, I'll hit high. I'm thinking maybe as the firearms is recoiling, the muzzle is coming up a little before the projectile has left the barrel. Is this even possible? Part of me is thinking that the projectile is probably long gone before the recoil impulse begins moving the rifle in any real sense.

#3 - In response to #2, I've experimented with pulling the firearm into my shoulder. However, I don't think this works because I'm using too many muscles in the process, probably moving the rifle a lot more than I think I am.

It was pretty windy here today, and I was having lots of fun with my .22lr at 50 yards. I was shooting hollowpoint Winchester 555's and damn, the wind really shoves those around. It's pretty fun trying to predict POI with the wind. Sometimes I have it, sometimes I don't at all... However, I find black targets the best, because I can barely see the projectile arcing into the target. It sort of helps me get the 'feel' for what's going on.

I know I'm talking a lot about .22lr, but this these are questions that pertain to my .223 as well. It's the small stuff that counts, and I don't know if I'm just over thinking things, or if there actually is a set of techniques regarding this minute stuff.

 

[Haagen_Dazs]

I wish I could answer those questions but I guess the best way is to find out by testing like you already have, or maybe get someone who knows their #### to teach you; something I wish I had too lol!

I've got the same 2 calibres as you, but I don't practice as much as I should with the .22...

 

[greg11]

.22lr is hilarious. It was pretty windy today and it's crazy how much the little things get pushed around. Like I said, get a black target, you'll shoot LR a lot more, it's awesome seeing the bullet arc into the target. I am shooting a 50 yard target at 15x magnification. It's awesome.

 

[maynard]

I shoot prone target rifle with a jacket and sling out to 1000 yards. I also practice with a .22 prone rifle in the off season. With a .22 the follow through after the shot is very important, more so than with a fullbore rifle with all the recoil.

Even when shooting from a rest or off a bench your position must be very relaxed and no stress on the shooter or rifle. A good way to make sure you have a relaxed position is to line up your sights/scope on the target a close you eyes for 3-4 seconds then open them and see where you are pointed. If you are not still perfectly lined up you need to change your position slightly until you can do this. You may need to do this with every shot. Your cheek pressure should be such that your head position is comfortable and relaxed without putting too pressure on the stock. Your eye should be lined up with the sights/scope after closing your eyes for 3-4 seconds. Again if it is not you need to put some kind of cheek rest on your rifle(layers of slim foam taped to the stock).

Learning the wind with a .22 at 100 yards sure helps reading the wind at 1000 with a fullbore rifle. With the .22 use serveyor's tape that you can pick up in your sights or scope while aiming at the target.

 

[mmattockx]

OP, have a look at this thread by Mystic in the rimfire forum, it has some good tips in it.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=531405&highlight=class

I built a Savage Mk.II with a Shilen match barrel and have found the same as you. The gun (off a rest) is very sensitive to my inputs and follow through. Off a front rest and rear bag I try to touch the gun as little as possible, barely touching the stock with my cheek and shoulder and pulling the trigger by squeezing back on the trigger and forward on the grip together in order to not disturb the rifle as the trigger breaks. I currently have a modified stock trigger(non-accutrigger) in it and will be moving to a Rifle Basix trigger to get a lighter pull weight and more consistent release.

This is my thread on my rifle: http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=637232


Mark

 

[dan belisle]

There's a reason BR shooters don't really touch any part of the gun but the trigger. Pretty much everything you do that contacts the firearm will change POI in some manner. - dan

 

[22forever]

I found this an interesting read. http://www.thewindisnotyourfriend.com/read/long-rifle-wind.html

 

[greg11]

Thanks guys...

Manyard and Matt, I'm glad to see my issues aren't unique. There just seemed to be so many variables going on at one time that I couldn't isolate one particular cause for my issues.

I wish I knew of an indoor 50yd range here in Freddie. I feel like getting the wind out of the equation would help me narrow things down a little, but I guess it all comes down to practise, in all conditions, and eventually I'll just "get it" in terms of developing an intuitive "feel" for what's happening with my rifle. That's what I'm hoping anyway.

With a .22 the follow through after the shot is very important, more so than with a fullbore rifle with all the recoil.

I'm very curious about this. I try dry firing often, and I'm not flinching, for sure. So any movement going on has to do with the mechanical forces of:

A) the trigger breaking and
B) recoil

Like I said, I wonder if the muzzle is rising significantly under recoil before the round has left the barrel. Because it really seems to me that if I use the "hands off" approach, trying to touch the .22LR as little as possible, that the gun is totally wild!

I have a Savage Mark II FVSR (Tacticool looking rig, plastic stock and 16" fluted barrel and accutrigger). I suspect the stock is influencing things a little, as well as its lack of a bedding job. But even so, I think one holing at 50yrds should be this difficult. It could be the ammo too....

I find that I can usually come close to a clover leaf if I do my part. But then a flier just shatters my confidence and makes me wonder if I'm just fluking into some of my better groups. Again, maybe it's minute differences in the ammunition.

Frustrated, but loving it....

 

[mmattockx]

I'm very curious about this. I try dry firing often, and I'm not flinching, for sure. So any movement going on has to do with the mechanical forces of:

A) the trigger breaking and
B) recoil

Like I said, I wonder if the muzzle is rising significantly under recoil before the round has left the barrel. Because it really seems to me that if I use the "hands off" approach, trying to touch the .22LR as little as possible, that the gun is totally wild!

I feel the same way, but my groups say that less contact is better. I am using the stock trigger and it is way too heavy for BR shooting and has a ton of overtravel, which I am sure is not helping my groups at all. I am thinking of a Rifle Basix trigger to get the weight down and clean up the break and over travel problem.

I have a Savage Mark II FVSR (Tacticool looking rig, plastic stock and 16" fluted barrel and accutrigger). I suspect the stock is influencing things a little, as well as its lack of a bedding job. But even so, I think one holing at 50yrds should be this difficult. It could be the ammo too....

I find that I can usually come close to a clover leaf if I do my part. But then a flier just shatters my confidence and makes me wonder if I'm just fluking into some of my better groups. Again, maybe it's minute differences in the ammunition.

Frustrated, but loving it....

What are you using for ammo? I have found that Eley Sport is the best so far in my rifle. I have a couple of other ones to try if the weather ever settles back down here.

Below is a pic of my test groups with the Eley, 5 groups of 5 rounds each at 50yds. The center group was the fouler and I pulled the one flier out of the group at the top right. The one hole group top left was awesome, I saw the trace on 3 of the 5 rounds, all going in the same hole. Wish I could do that every time...

Mark

 

[dan belisle]

Buy a box of every brand of 22 ammo you can find in your area. Try shooting at dawn (or whatever time of day is calmest in your area) and compare the ammo. When you figure out which shoots best, buy a pallet of it. Then work on your gun and technique. - dan

 

[Mystic Precision]

I am gearing up to train with a Savage for exactly this reason. I want to perfect my follow through and a rimfire is the best teacher especially on a Harris. Screw up and that bullet is going somewhere else.... PERFECT.

You can get pretty sloppy with an 18 lbs rifle BUT the effect is still there.

Mark, give SK rifle match a try. I quite using Eley sport cause of all the flyers it produced. Some of those outs are not your fault. The groups look a whole lot like mine. Super tight, then really generous, then a zinger off in la la land.

Shoot it at 100yds and it is hilarious.

I found SK to be very stable with little vertical dispersion and so much more consistent. Some 100yds 5 rds groups.

Jerry