Hi guys, here are some thoughts I'd like to pass by you on the .455 cartridge and my investigations into my Smith and Wesson 455 Eley Hand Ejector Model 2.
I've slugged the barrel three times on my S&W and the largest diameter I can measure on the slug is .450 diameter. The slug gets most of the way down the barrel and then shoots out of the forcing cone as I expect it should.
I've pulled a lead Fiocci and a lead Dominion bullet and have measured .452 and .450 respectively, even a Kynoch jacketed bullet I have measures .452.
Now I've been doing some looking around and found an interesting article on the very confusing history of the .455 cartridge and found this little tid-bit:
Once upon a time (actually in the late 1860s), in a country called England, the government of the day faced a dilemma. Here they were stuck with a whole bunch of percussion pistols while the rest of the world had discovered self-contained ammunition. Many of these were the Adams revolver in 54 bore and the decision was made to convert these Adams "Cap and Ball" revolvers to fire a metallic self-contained cartridge. As a 54-bore pistol is essentially .450 caliber, the cartridge designed to be used in converted revolvers was the .450 Boxer which became the .450 Adams Mk 1.
http://cartridgecollectors.org/455/introto455.htm
As it turns out the 450 Adams cartridge was really wimpy and was outdated pretty much right off the start so the British government decided to go bigger and Enfield developed a .455 revolver. But unfortunately the .455 Enfield was approved before a proper .455 cartridge was approved. So as a stop gap measure they ended up using the older and wimpier .450 Adams. In the meantime the Enfield .455 Revolver was updated to a .476 diameter cartridge and the true .455 cartridge was skipped entirely. The new Enfield ".455" cartridge was really a .476 bullet stuffed into a .455'ish case and looked rediculous, very much like a very small #####.
Years went by and technology improved so the Brits once again decided to update their revolver, this time one chambered in a true .455 cartridge. This time the Webley Mk1 won the contract. Once again there were supply issues and the true .455 Webley cartridge was not available. Obviously the old .476 round wouldn't fit so as a stop gap measure they once again resorted to using the now even older and wimpier .450 ADAMS which was still widely available. I think this is why Webleys are marked the way they are (i.e. 450-455 Webley) and are built the way they are (the forcing cone is .450 in diameter while the barrel is .455 in diameter). I think this is also the reason why .455 bullets are hollow based since they have to pass through a small hole and then expand to fill the rifling of the bigger diameter barrel.
I'm really starting to wonder if the .455 was ever really produced as a real .455 diameter bullet! Now you've got a whole whack load of Webley's out there with a .450 forcing cone so people could use the .450 Adams in their revolvers, does it make sense to make ammo (especially jacketed ammo) 5 thou bigger than the forcing cone diameter? Wouldn't that be dangerous?
World War 1 rolls around, Britain and her allies don't have nearly enough guns and get anyone they can (United States) to start pumping out handguns as fast as possible. Colt and Smith & Wesson answer the call chambering their respective revolver models in .455 Eley - note the name change, not a .455 Webley it's a .455 Eley. The Americans are already set up for the 45 Colt and 45 ACP, so why would they turn around and re-tool to produce a .455 diameter barrel for a .455 bullet that's really only .452 in diameter?
Can it be possible that the .455 Smith and Wesson and maybe even the .455 Colt really have .45 barrels?
Has anyone else slugged their .455 Smith and Wesson barrels? Do they really have a .455 diameter barrel?
I've slugged the barrel three times on my S&W and the largest diameter I can measure on the slug is .450 diameter. The slug gets most of the way down the barrel and then shoots out of the forcing cone as I expect it should.
I've pulled a lead Fiocci and a lead Dominion bullet and have measured .452 and .450 respectively, even a Kynoch jacketed bullet I have measures .452.
Now I've been doing some looking around and found an interesting article on the very confusing history of the .455 cartridge and found this little tid-bit:
Once upon a time (actually in the late 1860s), in a country called England, the government of the day faced a dilemma. Here they were stuck with a whole bunch of percussion pistols while the rest of the world had discovered self-contained ammunition. Many of these were the Adams revolver in 54 bore and the decision was made to convert these Adams "Cap and Ball" revolvers to fire a metallic self-contained cartridge. As a 54-bore pistol is essentially .450 caliber, the cartridge designed to be used in converted revolvers was the .450 Boxer which became the .450 Adams Mk 1.
http://cartridgecollectors.org/455/introto455.htm
As it turns out the 450 Adams cartridge was really wimpy and was outdated pretty much right off the start so the British government decided to go bigger and Enfield developed a .455 revolver. But unfortunately the .455 Enfield was approved before a proper .455 cartridge was approved. So as a stop gap measure they ended up using the older and wimpier .450 Adams. In the meantime the Enfield .455 Revolver was updated to a .476 diameter cartridge and the true .455 cartridge was skipped entirely. The new Enfield ".455" cartridge was really a .476 bullet stuffed into a .455'ish case and looked rediculous, very much like a very small #####.
Years went by and technology improved so the Brits once again decided to update their revolver, this time one chambered in a true .455 cartridge. This time the Webley Mk1 won the contract. Once again there were supply issues and the true .455 Webley cartridge was not available. Obviously the old .476 round wouldn't fit so as a stop gap measure they once again resorted to using the now even older and wimpier .450 ADAMS which was still widely available. I think this is why Webleys are marked the way they are (i.e. 450-455 Webley) and are built the way they are (the forcing cone is .450 in diameter while the barrel is .455 in diameter). I think this is also the reason why .455 bullets are hollow based since they have to pass through a small hole and then expand to fill the rifling of the bigger diameter barrel.
I'm really starting to wonder if the .455 was ever really produced as a real .455 diameter bullet! Now you've got a whole whack load of Webley's out there with a .450 forcing cone so people could use the .450 Adams in their revolvers, does it make sense to make ammo (especially jacketed ammo) 5 thou bigger than the forcing cone diameter? Wouldn't that be dangerous?
World War 1 rolls around, Britain and her allies don't have nearly enough guns and get anyone they can (United States) to start pumping out handguns as fast as possible. Colt and Smith & Wesson answer the call chambering their respective revolver models in .455 Eley - note the name change, not a .455 Webley it's a .455 Eley. The Americans are already set up for the 45 Colt and 45 ACP, so why would they turn around and re-tool to produce a .455 diameter barrel for a .455 bullet that's really only .452 in diameter?
Can it be possible that the .455 Smith and Wesson and maybe even the .455 Colt really have .45 barrels?
Has anyone else slugged their .455 Smith and Wesson barrels? Do they really have a .455 diameter barrel?
