sparks come out of chamber of an ipsc gun, stovepipe, Winchester ammo; ideas?

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Hi all,

Something really funky started happening to me... I started getting stovepipes shooting the 124gr WinClean in my SP01. That's strange because that ammo has always been extremely reliable in that gun (factory recoil spring). It happed today in a match, so I went to a club afterwards and put several hundred round of various ammo types through three guns (2 SP01s and 1 baby eagle). I'd get stove pipes, rarely but consistently, with both the 115 and 125gr winclean, where before there weren't any.

BUT (!!!!) I noticed something - whenever a round didn't eject fully, I started to notice that when THAT round fired, there was like a shower of sparks that shot out of the chamber. I was worried about squibs, so I'd always check, but it didn't seem to affect the ability of the bullet to hit the target, but it did affect the "ejectability" of the case (and it even happened with the weaker recoil spring(s) too).

I just recently bought a bunch of Winchester ammo from Lebaron, a mix of 115gr and 124 winclean and 124 FMJ - it seems to happen with all of them... (1 round in about 100) Could that shipment to LeBaron have been '####ed' somehow?? I didn't screw with the ammo, it was stored in the same place as the canadianbdx ammo which works just perfectly fine... ? (it was in a very cold place, but that never bothered it before).

Any ideas?? The ONLY clue I have is the shower of sparks which I get most of the time when a round which fails to eject actually get shot... ???? :confused:

Thanks...
 
I would let Winchester know about the issue since they are an ISO company they've got quality controls in place and can identify any problems with Quality for each batch ( or at least they should) and will know where and when it was made and where they were shipped to... Give them the lot number maybe they have issues with that batch. Who knows maybe they'll replace ur batch with good stuff.

Question: I have a quality issue with one of your products. What do I do?
Answer: Write to: Winchester Ammunition, Attn: Product Service Dept, 427 N. Shamrock St., East Alton, IL 62024 or click the "My question was not answered button" at the bottom of this page and send us an email. We will get back to you as soon as possible.

http://www.winchester.com/contactus/askwinchester.aspx?question=
 
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It definitely sounds like some sort of contamination. I had a very similar problem to this once with handloads that I had accidentally contaminated with lube. Are all the rounds from the same batch lot? I'm thinking there might be some sort of batch number somewhere on the box. It would be interesting to run your loads over a chrono to see if you are also getting wide variances with this batch lot.
 
I have shot 1000 rounds of 9mm Winclean. I didn't have any problems with stovepiping, but I did notice sparks and muzzle flash on more than just a few of those rounds. I stopped buying the stuff and went back to the regular Winchester white box rounds. omen, let us know what Winchester has to say.
 
Omen...it could be a problem with the primers...

WinClean uses lead free primers (contains no lead styphenate)

These primers are apperantly sensetive to humidity. If the rounds were exposed to high humidiy...the primers may not be flashing the way they should. This would result in alot of unburnt powder and would probably explain the Stove pipes (lazy ejection...pressure to low) and the sparks (unburnt powder burning in the chamber)

Cheers
 
I have noticed more irregularities with Winclean ammo than anything else. I have to agree with Relliot with the contamination thing. Could also be the amount of powder in the case. When I used Vit N350 for a while and was playing with the loads, a small charge would cause MORE sparks, MORE noise, and less velocity. Go figure. It has to do with the volume of powder/air in the case.

At least you had a reason for your poor showing at the match. I'm still looking for my brain.....I think I lost is somewhere during the first stage on Saturday! :bangHead:


Maybe it is a good time to start reloading now.
 
40cal said:
At least you had a reason for your poor showing at the match.
Click to expand...

hehe, nah, I appreciate the help, but the truth is the ammo was only responsible for an extra 5-6s on the field course (stovepipe/jam) - on the other stages I had 2 mikes on #1 and on #2 I decided to just run down without shooting at the poppers to see if I could move fast enough to overcome the drop in points - alas no, the HF ratios didn't work out, but I had fun freaking people out!! You should have seen how, all of the sudden, people starting working out the hit factors in their heads (and on calculators too, haha). ;) So, I'm not worried about the low score, just luring my competition into a false sense of security :dancingbanana:
 
omen said:
Hi all,

Something really funky started happening to me... I started getting stovepipes shooting the 124gr WinClean in my SP01. That's strange because that ammo has always been extremely reliable in that gun (factory recoil spring). It happed today in a match, so I went to a club afterwards and put several hundred round of various ammo types through three guns (2 SP01s and 1 baby eagle). I'd get stove pipes, rarely but consistently, with both the 115 and 125gr winclean, where before there weren't any.

BUT (!!!!) I noticed something - whenever a round didn't eject fully, I started to notice that when THAT round fired, there was like a shower of sparks that shot out of the chamber. I was worried about squibs, so I'd always check, but it didn't seem to affect the ability of the bullet to hit the target, but it did affect the "ejectability" of the case (and it even happened with the weaker recoil spring(s) too).

I just recently bought a bunch of Winchester ammo from Lebaron, a mix of 115gr and 124 winclean and 124 FMJ - it seems to happen with all of them... (1 round in about 100) Could that shipment to LeBaron have been 'f**ked' somehow?? I didn't screw with the ammo, it was stored in the same place as the canadianbdx ammo which works just perfectly fine... ? (it was in a very cold place, but that never bothered it before).

Any ideas?? The ONLY clue I have is the shower of sparks which I get most of the time when a round which fails to eject actually get shot... ???? :confused:

Thanks...
Click to expand...


The problem is the composition of the lead-free primer. The primer power is coated with a shelac-like substance/ When the primer is ignited, the primer power leaves the barrel too and many times will "spark" rather than burn off like lead styphnate. In addition, lead free primers are not consistant in burn rate and sometimes the anvils are loose or too far from the primer powder.
Stove pipes have long been a problem with Winclean or Balisticlean.

Manufacturers have moved to smaller primers and smaller flash holes too.

The lead free is better for our health but they can be corrosive and inconsistant.

Talk to Wolf Hoffman at Wolf Bullets. He has lots to say about the lead free issue and bullets are his business.
 
WHYLOOK said:
Stove pipes have long been a problem with Winclean or Balisticlean.
Click to expand...


well, uhmm, I've been shooting Winchester ammo for years, and this is the first time that I've seen this, plus, it was also happening with the 124FMJ, which is not lead-free....

ohh, well...
 
I saw this occur with either Federal HST or Winchester ranger 147gr hp ammo. I ran low at a match of FMJ, and went to use this old stock. Not sure why it sparked, but I know it was fairly old stock.

I hadn't noticed this with any other ammo. The 147gr winclean I used usually just had a large blue flame.
 
hmm... put another few hundred rounds through... very consistent problems with the 124gr bought at LeBaron in the very recent past, but the 115gr was ok (bought as the same time). I now even got a dud in the 124gr BEB (repeat hard primer strikes, and nothing). Ohh, well...
 
There might be an inconsistent powder charge issue when combined with (what i have heard in the past) lead free primers needing very little airspace in the case or none at all.
 
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