speer 250g 35 whelen seating
- Thread starter WhelanLad
- Start date
Which bullet nose style ? The 250gr spitzer is 3.33" OAL and the 250gr RNSP is 3.17" OAL according to Ken Waters Pet Loads. Win brass.... most accurate load was 52gr of IMR 4064/2280fps Best Load was the now defunct IMR 4320-56gr/2535fps OAL will vary gun to gun but it's a starting place.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
WhelanLad - Speer #14 Reloading Manual says they used over all length of 3.340" with their 250 grain soft point. The rifle that they used was 22" barrel Remington 700 - may or may not mean much for your rifle. First, has to be short enough to fit into your magazine - likely want a bit of room for feeding, so usually .050" less than inside magazine length works out okay. Then, you will likely want some "jump" to the lands, for a hunting round. There are several ways to establish that distance - rough rules of thumb talk about .020" to .030" jump as start point. Some get more fussy than that, but is generally close enough for a start point. FYI - I have an older Remington Model 30 in 30-06 - if I seat the Hornady 150 grain Soft point to the cannelure, then that bullet jams several thousandths into the rifling - so the placement of a cannelure, in at least one instance of mine, is no assurance of being "correct", at all. Conversely, I have a Husqvarna 9.3x57 that has such long "leade", that I can not reach the lands, at all, until the rear of a bore rider cast bullet is about 1/8" out of the case.
It's a CVA Scout v2 with a 23" barrel, I believe it's advertised as 25" but that includes a (quite effective) muzzle brake. It's a total hammer - you could easily dial it back 0.5-1.0 grains and still be at 2550fps.
I think my starting load was 61.0 and 3.340" OAL.
Here's the data I started with:
https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/35_Whelen_250.pdf
https://reloadingdata.speer.com/downloads/speer/reloading-pdfs/rifle/35_Whelen_250.pdf
sorry i thought i replied shortly after you had posted, its the spitzers!
thats interesting... 4064 is somewat similiar to varget rate.... ? 51.8 / 52 same same... hmm.
thanks mikey.
im going to be lookin to load at around 2500 i rekon, as to sight in about 1.5-2 high at 100meters to get ok -inline with 200m being a long one.
i shot some factory 250gr Corelokt today, 100m to zero and 230m cos thats how far the gong was from the ute... quite a drop when zeroed 100m... which i knew.
ideally the Whelen is now a sit and wait or fine weather novelty hunt when deer down is the menu...
im going to set the 30-06 up to be my 10-300m gun as per planned, the 180gr vargt combo will do it with a +2 zero i rekons
Paul Jacobsen
Member
54.5 grains of IMR 4064. 2450 fps out of a 22 inch Krieger barrel. Lights out load, nothing has ever walked away from it. End to end on an 1800 lb moose. Haven't ever changed the load in 34 yrs
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Is a good post that points to issue a new hand loader will have to deal with. I do not have complete collection of old Speer manuals - but I have #7 which was published in 1966. I note that for 250 grain Speer Spitzer, they listed 54.0 min for IMR4064, and 58.0 Max ("Gov't Issue" cases and CCI 200 primers). Same listings in Speer #5 Manual from 1961 ("Arsenal" cases and CCI 200 primers). Then, a big jump in "age" - my next Speer Manual is #14, was published in 2007. Same bullet, same IMR4064 powder (Remington case, CCI 200/250 primers) - shows 49.0 as minimum and 53.0 as Maximum - same as on chart linked above to current Speer website. So why the change? First ones maybe done with home-done pressure signs, and later ones done with actual pressure test device? Cases might have had different volumes - then to now? Powder was changed? Primers are "hotter" today? Poster above did not mention how many times his load has been fired in past 34 years (since 1988) - maybe he is within the safety factor margin of his rifle design, or maybe modern Speer numbers actually are "too" mild?
An observation - in that #14 Manual - on page ii - a "Disclaimer" - "The data contained herein replaces, supersedes and obsoletes all data previously published ..." So, it appears that Speer (Omark Industries, Blount International, or whomever owns them today) DOES NOT stand behind what was given as Speer loadings in previous manuals. I have no clue what latest Speer manual number is, but likely has a similar disclaimer, I suspect???
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Paul Jacobsen
Member
I went as high as 56 grains but started seeing pressure signs creeping in. Dropped to 54.5 and kept it at that...on really hot days, you can see a tiny bit more primer flattening
All of what ya mention here Nels , sounds like it is more or less the decade before, during and post the Lawyer proof era..... which seen massive changes to firearms in regards to alot of "safety" mechanisms on rifles previously without, possibly the "dumbing down" across the board for ALL reloads within reasons... possibly some older "winchester favourites" an the like were cooled down to within a newer Regulated specification..
im looking over this thread as im down a 30-06 an picked up the .35 whelen for a run this week whilst the big brute sambar Stags are moving about coming onto the hinds i suspect........ il either poleaxe one , or itl run off..........
i have a dozen 250gr Corelokts which i believe are Zero-d, an shot some Speer 250 handloads we mention above @ 52gr Varget, an they shot Lower than at about 130-150m un ranged at the gong...
i wont be shootin further than that so either ither, ill load Factory an see how it goes on em, been a while since poking one with the Whelen...times now.
hey Paul, what are you shootin with the Whelen? fur or paper stuff?
Just my two cents from the 35 Whelen I built last year on a savage action with a JC barrel. I set it with a tight head space.
Spend the 50 bucks and get an over all length gauge from hornady and a modified case. Measure a pile of different bullets out of the same box. They will vary!!
Someone mentioned 20 or 30 thousand off rifling but I usually start at 50 thousands. These Whelen - some are long throated chambers so I was careful of the amount of bullet in the neck so I had enough in there. Some chambers are so darn long you can’t even get near the rifling with bullet still in the modified case.
I also used a lee factory crimp die on my loads that does not need a cannelure. Tends to lower average extreme spread but honestly on these flying rocks, don’t know if it really makes a difference!
Did not find a bullet that shot poorly and I expect that was a testament to how well the barrel was cut. Even factory federal trophy shot 2771-3 fps and cut a half inch hole at 100.
The gun shot ridiculously well and I settled on a Barnes ttsx bullet which shoots lights out to 300 meters.
Good luck with your Whelen!
Spend the 50 bucks and get an over all length gauge from hornady and a modified case. Measure a pile of different bullets out of the same box. They will vary!!
Someone mentioned 20 or 30 thousand off rifling but I usually start at 50 thousands. These Whelen - some are long throated chambers so I was careful of the amount of bullet in the neck so I had enough in there. Some chambers are so darn long you can’t even get near the rifling with bullet still in the modified case.
I also used a lee factory crimp die on my loads that does not need a cannelure. Tends to lower average extreme spread but honestly on these flying rocks, don’t know if it really makes a difference!
Did not find a bullet that shot poorly and I expect that was a testament to how well the barrel was cut. Even factory federal trophy shot 2771-3 fps and cut a half inch hole at 100.
The gun shot ridiculously well and I settled on a Barnes ttsx bullet which shoots lights out to 300 meters.
Good luck with your Whelen!
Paul Jacobsen
Member
Don't shoot much paper; if I wanted to shoot for groups I'd build a target rifle....I shoot paper once a year or so just to make sure the zero hasn't changed or when working up a new load. 35 Whelen is one of the finest big game cartridges ever. I've recently started shooting big 310 grain cast bullets in the rifle. Amazing accuracy and penetration.
Attachments
I shoot a 35 Whelen since the 1980's
My 2 rifles made by the late Norm Hamm of Sundrige ON the stocks made by his Son Fred Hamm
22" & 24" on real mauser 98 actions .Norm made his own reamer and it was a 35 Whelen Improved version.
Norm' s load was the 250gr Speer Spitzer with 54grs of IMR 4064. OAL 3.340" . I Shot a moose on the run at 100yds hide quarter and only lost 10lbs of meat .the bullet velocity and the Speer 250gr
Spitzer are the best on their beformance together
I am now working on loading 225gr Sierra Spitzer BT bullets and Nosler Accubond bullets . I am using Varget io
I have used Varget with the 250 gr bullets also as a trial .
My 2 rifles made by the late Norm Hamm of Sundrige ON the stocks made by his Son Fred Hamm
22" & 24" on real mauser 98 actions .Norm made his own reamer and it was a 35 Whelen Improved version.
Norm' s load was the 250gr Speer Spitzer with 54grs of IMR 4064. OAL 3.340" . I Shot a moose on the run at 100yds hide quarter and only lost 10lbs of meat .the bullet velocity and the Speer 250gr
Spitzer are the best on their beformance together
I am now working on loading 225gr Sierra Spitzer BT bullets and Nosler Accubond bullets . I am using Varget io
I have used Varget with the 250 gr bullets also as a trial .
