Sporterized 303 Lee poor performance

R

Ron R

Member
EE Expired
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Location
Saskatchewan
Ive got a sporterized 4 no 2. The results at the range with my reloads is awful when compared to factory ammunition. (150grain Speer re 15 and Federal primers gives me embarrasing qroups :eek: )

I haven't tried a bunch of combonations regarding bullet weight and powders yet because I am a novice but I am suspecting that I am loosing accuracy due to bedding and possibly a headspace concerns. I have a thread on the "handload" portion of the forum.

I am looking for someone near Saskatoon or nearest that can help me assess my rifle from my perspective. ie. No talk of selling a new rifle or why would you want to do this to a bubba'd 303? It is the only one I own and I love it :) . I don't fully understand all the bedding stuff and would like to know if this rifle is worth any more effort. I realize the benefits of a chamber cast and slugging the barrel and am willing to go through the effort provided it can lead me to improved results at the range. (I am a hunter who shoots upto 200yds for deer.)

I also have a problem with shells popping out of my magazine while inserting it into the rifle and round noses not loading into the chamber.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Regards
Ron R
 
If it shoots good with factory and lousy with your handloads then it's your handloads. The .303 operates at fairly low pressure (compared to modern cartridges) and you will need to be very close or at max loads for consistant powder burn. Do your reloaded cases have black powder residue on the outside of them?
 
I suggest using a stripper clip (those tiny metal frame that hold the cartridges) to load ammo into the mag. That helped me a lot! It's harder to load rimed ammo properly into a mag! That's why they invented rimless ammo!

Good luck

Martin
 
"The results at the range with my reloads is awful when compared to factory ammunition."

That suggests the problem is not with the rifle, but with the ammunition. Some rifles are just pickier than others about the ammunition, but it could be that there is something wrong with your reloads. I have a couple of No4.Mk2s that shoot much worse with some reloads I made using Speer bullets (180grain roundnose, in this case) than with any other reloads and any factory ammunition I've tried.

If you haven't gone back to factory ammunition after the incidences of poor accuracy from reloads, it may be a simple fault has developed with the rifle, such as loosening of the king screw (in front of the trigger guard) which would allow the action to be loose in the stock. It has happened to me, and took me a while to figure out why I couldn't produce a group.

Also make sure the bore is properly cleaned. It's an old rifle, so copper fouling may have developed gradually and finally just reached the critical point where it is significant. I've had bores that looked nice and bright and shiny, but Barnes CR-10 brought out the motherlode of copper, and in one case an old Remington 788 that was keyholing rounds in >12" groups at 25 yards was suddenly revealed as a good shooter.

Your magazine lips may have worn too much or been bent out of shape so that they don't hold the rounds in securely or in the case of roundnoses not feeding, it may not present them properly to the action.

Having the headspace checked and/or the barrel slugged is not so expensive as to be unreasonable for an old sportered Enfield, and I think if you take it to A.C. Douglas or Saskatoon Gunsmith Shop (K Higgins) they will be happy to help you and won't try to sell you a new gun without first finding out if this one works (especially A.C. Douglas - he's just a 'smith, not a shop.)
 
thanks

Hitzy, I have got pictures but cannot post...can someone post for me? The black is there.

Martin..I forgot to mention that there is a scope on my bubba. You want to know something embarassing...I bought stipper clips for the darn thing before I knew how they were supposed to work...

Tooner...king screw will be checked. Extreme copper fouling...I have had some evidence of that with a milder cleaner. CR-10 is available at Wholesale I assume. The magazine tune is something that I will need an expert to look at before I do something stupid. I will pm you on some local response from a shop here in Saskatoon.

Regards
Ron R
 
Well if they have the black powder residue on them, then they are not operating at a high enough pressure to seal the chamber tight.
So that is a good thing to know, the case can tell you a lot about what is going on.
So hope you can sort it out.
 
Ron R said:
thanks

Hitzy, I have got pictures but cannot post...can someone post for me? The black is there.



Regards
Ron R
Click to expand...

Like partsman said, this is a sign of too low of pressure to give a gas seal with the neck.....gas is escaping back around the case. From my own experiences with this while shooting over a chrony, when the odd case would give a good seal it was up to 300fps faster than the same load leaking gas. Needless to say accuracy went for a crap.
Looking at the alliant data, 46.2g is max for RL15 in the .303 with a 150g. Start at 44g and work up to max watching for pressure signs. I think 44g will give you a good gas seal though, then just look for groups.
 
I'm at 45.2 already. I experience more black on rounds when I had less grains of powder. This happens once or twice on 10 rounds or so.

Gone this weekend to fill a white tail tag.

Regards
Ron R
 
Last edited:
Lots of good advice given. You dont mention how "good" factory ammo is, but with the right ammo, etc. a rifle such as yours should be around 1-2 moa at 100 y, off the bench.
Since you reload, suggest you partially resize the cases to match the chamber. (start by leaving a "loonie' gap between the die and shellholder - size one case, and check in chamber, adjust until you have a very slight interference, or less.) This will extend the life of your brass, and will solve your carbon problem, and any potential gas leaks. (Your carbon problem could be caused by you inadvertently sizing the cases too small for the chamber - Enfield chambers are oversize and variable...)
Some other considerations:
- Try Hornady bullets, possibly of a different weight. They are slightly larger in dia than Speer, and consistently work better for me. This may solve your feeding issue also.
- Are you using one brand of brass? Are you using LR primers?
- Stick with RE 15 ...
- How are you establishing OAL? I dont recall Speer having a cannelure?
- Is the barrel free floated? Most sported milsurps have weak bedding, however, many of the LE's that I've seen were done pretty well. Most sported LE's I've shot preferred support at the foreend.
- Try someone elses mag, as a check. In the long term, you may consider getting a 5 round mag - much easier to carry the rifle.

HTH
 
"...headspace concerns..." You should have the headspace checked anyway, but it has nothing to do with accuracy. It's a safety issue.
Slugging the bore will tell you exactly how big it is. Then you buy bullets to suit the diameter. A bore diameter of .311" to .315" is ok. If it's bigger, that barrel is shot out. Have a look at the load data at http://www.303british.com/. Read the 'Bullet Talk' page too.
The mag sounds like the lips may be a bit wide. Fine needle nosed pliers can be used to tweak them in a tick. No experts required. Just tweak them in a wee bit at a time until the ammo stays put, but still feeds. Enfields aren't delicate, so you can be a bit forceful when closing the action when using RN bullets. However, No.4's were made to use spitzer style bullets.
Bedding, after the headspace is proven to be ok, is just making a better steel to wood fit using epoxy. Mind you, like the others have said, if the accuracy is ok with factory, work up a load instead of picking one and hoping your rifle will shoot it well.
 
What a difference a weekend will make.:D

Used factory Hornady's and made a shot over 300yds that made the two old boys I was with :eek: . They didn't think that any 303 could push it that far..

This tells me two things...
1. Factory reloads do in factwork quite well. My reloading needs to improve. :rolleyes:
2. .312 is the way to go - for me anyways.

I believe now that by changing from the Speer to the Hornady will make the seal I need on my reloads. This should be the tonic I need and get me back on the map at the range.

Cosmic - Hornady factory works, cases are consitent IVI, large rifle primers, my stock is free floating, and good tip on the mag. The free floating part at the muzzle is the part that I am questioning. That's my next attempt after the bullet swap.

Sunray - headspace check will be done. I just haven't taken it anywhere yet and was trying to look at all the clues to indicate if there was a problem or not. I will be touching my mag up in the future and will try to find another mag to swap.

Jason - I may need to try that in the future. Thanks.

Oscar - bullets are .311 Speers - but I will be changing to .312.

Great feedback!

Regards
Ron R
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom