Spots on 9-Year-Old Ammo - Kept Dry But Was In Outside Storage Shed.
- Thread starter thegazelle
- Start date
shoot_to_kill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Luskville quebec
Ammo shoots best when its ripe like that, just like a ripe banana gets spots.
Its just tarnish, probably from some condensation or dampness. Should shoot fine.
Its just tarnish, probably from some condensation or dampness. Should shoot fine.
WAIT
have had handgun and rifle ammo in the past and told the guys to single fire it
otherwise one has been known to get caught on the barrel followed by the proverbial good round and
THERE GOES THE BARREL
just a word of caution
I would not buy or use it but it probably is fine
I am just to old to die
have had handgun and rifle ammo in the past and told the guys to single fire it
otherwise one has been known to get caught on the barrel followed by the proverbial good round and
THERE GOES THE BARREL
just a word of caution
I would not buy or use it but it probably is fine
I am just to old to die
Burton Urnie
Regular
- Location
- Near Woodstock New Brunswick
All that's happened is condensation has form do to temperature changes. It looks to be hardly marked. Shoot it.
I have some that was outside in a shed for years that was way beyond using.
I have some that was outside in a shed for years that was way beyond using.
SustainingGopher
CGN Regular
- Location
- An airport
Yeah, I'm gonna go with shoot it.
Ive been shooting a PPC match the last couple of weeks with these random cast 9mm loads I found at my father in law's estate. They are IVI cases from late 70's and the cases are very rusty (they were sitting in a wardrobe, in a vacant unheated house for 10 years on the east coast lol). No issues through a Glock 17. And these cartridges are in pretty rough shape to the point I was going to salvage them for components. Wouldn't worry about your 5.56 ammo.
Ive been shooting a PPC match the last couple of weeks with these random cast 9mm loads I found at my father in law's estate. They are IVI cases from late 70's and the cases are very rusty (they were sitting in a wardrobe, in a vacant unheated house for 10 years on the east coast lol). No issues through a Glock 17. And these cartridges are in pretty rough shape to the point I was going to salvage them for components. Wouldn't worry about your 5.56 ammo.
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Well, I made it out to the range today and gave these a go out of my X95. I am happy to report in 80 rounds shot of these "spotted banana" rounds, not a single issue - no failure to feed or eject. I did decide to keep the brass to see if I can somehow clean them up. A range member said likely I can probably steel wool these and improve the condition if I didn't have a wet tumbler (which I don't...yet...).
The RSO took a look and said they were definitely not the best cosmetically, but there were no issues shooting them, so I went ahead and did just that.
The X95 was no worse for wear. I used this since it seems to have a high tolerance for various ammo and can run very dirty. I cleaned it after when I got home anyway, and there was not much of any unusual fouling aside from some deposits at the end of the piston rod, which I G96ed away.
If I could find a way to get the brass cleaned up, I may consider buying more before the temperature gets too cold and another season of fluctuating temps affects these things...the price was just very good.
Thanks to everyone for their feedback and input.
The RSO took a look and said they were definitely not the best cosmetically, but there were no issues shooting them, so I went ahead and did just that.
The X95 was no worse for wear. I used this since it seems to have a high tolerance for various ammo and can run very dirty. I cleaned it after when I got home anyway, and there was not much of any unusual fouling aside from some deposits at the end of the piston rod, which I G96ed away.
If I could find a way to get the brass cleaned up, I may consider buying more before the temperature gets too cold and another season of fluctuating temps affects these things...the price was just very good.
Thanks to everyone for their feedback and input.
So just an update, and I know I didn't do this right, but I neither have the equipment nor the knowledge to do this the "proper" way.
So as you know, I shot those heavily tarnished rounds - they shot fine. I am CONSIDERING buying more, because...
My lesser concern was saving the brass and being able to clean it and re-use it should I ever get into reloading (which is becoming more of a consideration due to the ammo price spike as of the last few days)...I know several of you mentioned wet tumbling, but I don't have a wet tumbler, do not know anyone who does well enough to ask for them to clean it for me, and I am cheap. At this point not even sure I will pursue this. And I have ZERO knowledge on how to clean brass without a tumbler and since I had originally planned to discard this tarnished brass anyway, what would it hurt...
So I relied on my very limited knowledge of cleaning anything - particularly pennies when I was a kid and soaking some nasty tarnished pennies in vinegar. I thought I'd try it here.
Before that I tried to put the brass through very hot water with Dawn soap and steel wool. It didn't make any difference after 20 minutes of scrubbing it all.
So I put it in a pure vinegar bath for 27 hours. I figure if it ruins the brass, oh well, I will just throw it out. If it didn't work I was going to even just run it through the dishwasher just for giggles, since I had already concluded that I wasn't going to keep this.
Vinegar bath didn't do much at first...but then I ran it through the hot water and Dawn again and scrubbed with steel wool. It seemed to make a difference and brass already looks better. See photos below - by no means perfect or even good, but you'd agree it was a far improvement from what I had originally posted.
And yes, I know, officially I should remove the primers, but I don't know how to do that and couldn't be bothered since this was just an experiment.
I stuck the vinegared and washed brass upside down in a heat register for 4 days.
I figured if I could do this with little skill, I am sure a wet tumbler would have made these look even better.
So as you know, I shot those heavily tarnished rounds - they shot fine. I am CONSIDERING buying more, because...
My lesser concern was saving the brass and being able to clean it and re-use it should I ever get into reloading (which is becoming more of a consideration due to the ammo price spike as of the last few days)...I know several of you mentioned wet tumbling, but I don't have a wet tumbler, do not know anyone who does well enough to ask for them to clean it for me, and I am cheap. At this point not even sure I will pursue this. And I have ZERO knowledge on how to clean brass without a tumbler and since I had originally planned to discard this tarnished brass anyway, what would it hurt...
So I relied on my very limited knowledge of cleaning anything - particularly pennies when I was a kid and soaking some nasty tarnished pennies in vinegar. I thought I'd try it here.
Before that I tried to put the brass through very hot water with Dawn soap and steel wool. It didn't make any difference after 20 minutes of scrubbing it all.
So I put it in a pure vinegar bath for 27 hours. I figure if it ruins the brass, oh well, I will just throw it out. If it didn't work I was going to even just run it through the dishwasher just for giggles, since I had already concluded that I wasn't going to keep this.
Vinegar bath didn't do much at first...but then I ran it through the hot water and Dawn again and scrubbed with steel wool. It seemed to make a difference and brass already looks better. See photos below - by no means perfect or even good, but you'd agree it was a far improvement from what I had originally posted.
And yes, I know, officially I should remove the primers, but I don't know how to do that and couldn't be bothered since this was just an experiment.
I stuck the vinegared and washed brass upside down in a heat register for 4 days.
I figured if I could do this with little skill, I am sure a wet tumbler would have made these look even better.
Attachments
- Location
- Western Manitoba
From your pictures, I could almost guarantee that a couple hour wet tumble with stainless pins, Dawn and Lemishine and those would come out looking as new - inside and out. My past experience with walnut media vibrator type cleaner would be that exteriors would also look shiny new, but not much done to clean inside - not that inside really matters, anyway. I recently did a batch of 200+ 22-250 for neighbour - after crap all cleaned up, we did find 4 cases with cracked necks - he is adamant they were all factory ammo fired once - but so much crud on them, as if were stored loose, a foot deep in his garden.
I can not really tell from your pictures if those are milsurp crimped-in primers or not. Ordinary commercial ammo is usually NOT crimped primers - so press out a primer and press in a new one. Military crimped ones need intermediary step - press out fired primers, re-shape edge of primer pocket by swaging or peeling - now a new primer can be pressed back in there. Once you have dealt with the primer pocket the first time - is done for lifetime of that case - only needed to be done that first time - but not likely getting another primer in there without that middle step, if they are crimped in there.
Various ways to remove primers before wet cleaning - I prefer to do that only because that leaves a hole through case head - maybe lets the case dry easier inside, because some air can flow through - but pretty minor thing. If in a "rush", I often spread out wet cases on a cookie sheet and into oven at 225F or so for an hour. We have type of oven with a blower in there - seems to help. If you can remove primers, before tumbling, then usually get the primer pockets cleaned as well - if I do not tumble a batch, I do not clean primer pockets, but if tumbling anyways, I view what gets removed from dirty pockets as a "bonus" - so I prefer to remove primers before tumbling.
I can not really tell from your pictures if those are milsurp crimped-in primers or not. Ordinary commercial ammo is usually NOT crimped primers - so press out a primer and press in a new one. Military crimped ones need intermediary step - press out fired primers, re-shape edge of primer pocket by swaging or peeling - now a new primer can be pressed back in there. Once you have dealt with the primer pocket the first time - is done for lifetime of that case - only needed to be done that first time - but not likely getting another primer in there without that middle step, if they are crimped in there.
Various ways to remove primers before wet cleaning - I prefer to do that only because that leaves a hole through case head - maybe lets the case dry easier inside, because some air can flow through - but pretty minor thing. If in a "rush", I often spread out wet cases on a cookie sheet and into oven at 225F or so for an hour. We have type of oven with a blower in there - seems to help. If you can remove primers, before tumbling, then usually get the primer pockets cleaned as well - if I do not tumble a batch, I do not clean primer pockets, but if tumbling anyways, I view what gets removed from dirty pockets as a "bonus" - so I prefer to remove primers before tumbling.
Thanks as always for the feedback, Potashminer - I appreciate the offline messages and all the photos about reloading as well - as always you are a wealth of information on these subjects - I print out your emails and put them in a binder for reference.
It was a sigh of relief when these rounds shot without issues. Another sigh of relief when I was able to somewhat clean the ugliness off via the concentrated vinegar solution and the heat register slow drying. I just hope the banana spots don't show up but I am keeping the brass dry, so should be OK hopefully. While I doubt I will ever become a full fledged reloader the recent spike in ammo prices gives me pause.
Now question for everyone - I do have an opportunity to buy more of these rounds. Given the current condition of them, if I buy them and they are now in my humidity and temperature controlled ammo cabinet, do you think that the deterioration will continue or will stop now? I would buy a ton of them to shoot later, but I'd hate to wait another year with these things in my indoors cabinet at home and find out that the deterioration hasn't stopped and they become unusable in a year or two.
I've got some Norma-manufactured 6.5x55 military ammunition from 1976 with spots and brass tarnish on some.
Git it at lever Arms in 1980 in a 200 round pack.
Some of the boxes are still unopened so I don't want to have a look.
Has anyone else had any of this stuff?
Still safe?
Git it at lever Arms in 1980 in a 200 round pack.
Some of the boxes are still unopened so I don't want to have a look.
Has anyone else had any of this stuff?
Still safe?
The marks on that ammo is cosmetic. Means nothing. Overnight in walnut media in a tumbler will make it look new.
My opinions are based on book knowledge and on experience. I have more of the latter than the former.
I believe, that in general, cool dry storage means ammo will last indefinitely.
BUT, military ammo has a sealant around the bullet, separating the bullet from the inside of the neck. Our handloads and commercial ammo does not. In storage, the bullet can fuse to the brass neck (cold welding?) and cause neck tension variability and very poor accuracy. If you are making a large quantity of ammo for future use, the better procedure is to seat the bullet long, and then seat to the desired OAL before shooting. This solves the potential problem.
I am told that hot/cold cycles have no effect on primers.
I am told that cold is ok for powder, but heat is an issue. So keep ammo and powder cool.
Here is part of my 'experience". Our team was competing in Bisley, England. many of us bought Norma match ammo for practice. It was on sale at a cheap price, so I bought lots. After the matches I had some left over, so it left it in my locker in the club house, to use the next year. Some others did the same thing.
Winters in England are cold, but not excessively so. Heat was not an issue.
The next year we found that the Norma match ammo shot poorly. Something happened over the winter storage. The powder looked perfect. I can't see the primer being an issue. So I assume that something happened to the neck tension.
What I learned. Don't assume anything. Shoot the ammo and test it.
My opinions are based on book knowledge and on experience. I have more of the latter than the former.
I believe, that in general, cool dry storage means ammo will last indefinitely.
BUT, military ammo has a sealant around the bullet, separating the bullet from the inside of the neck. Our handloads and commercial ammo does not. In storage, the bullet can fuse to the brass neck (cold welding?) and cause neck tension variability and very poor accuracy. If you are making a large quantity of ammo for future use, the better procedure is to seat the bullet long, and then seat to the desired OAL before shooting. This solves the potential problem.
I am told that hot/cold cycles have no effect on primers.
I am told that cold is ok for powder, but heat is an issue. So keep ammo and powder cool.
Here is part of my 'experience". Our team was competing in Bisley, England. many of us bought Norma match ammo for practice. It was on sale at a cheap price, so I bought lots. After the matches I had some left over, so it left it in my locker in the club house, to use the next year. Some others did the same thing.
Winters in England are cold, but not excessively so. Heat was not an issue.
The next year we found that the Norma match ammo shot poorly. Something happened over the winter storage. The powder looked perfect. I can't see the primer being an issue. So I assume that something happened to the neck tension.
What I learned. Don't assume anything. Shoot the ammo and test it.
Just wondering if the clubhouse/locker would’ve been heated to stay around indoor temperatures over winter, or if it had the winter temperature exposure (like a non-winterized cabin)?
Just a thought that the brass neck and copper plated lead bullet might behave similar to a bimetallic strip (?)…
Non winterized cabin in winter.
