Squadding Opinions

Kodiak99317

Kodiak99317

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So your the match director and you holding a LR pairs match at your range. Say you started with 10 F Class Open shooters and for whatever reason, one guy drops out of the match really early, leaving you 9 shooters in this class. Since you started with 10 guys, you had five sets of pairs. Now you have four sets of pairs and one string shooter.

Do you re-squad this class into three sets of three shooters so everyone in this class is shooting from a triple and at the same disadvantage, or do you allow the one guy to shoot string with an advantage over the pairs shooters and leave the squadding as it was at the start of the day?

I say re-squad into 3 triples myself...

What do you other FR's say???

Keith
 
First rule...if no single string shooting is a rule, then NO single string shooting. I have seen this rule broken before for expediency, leaves a sour taste in your mouth. For example, last relay you're one point behind, and your shooting partner bows out because of a malfunction on his scope. If they let me shoot single string, it's nothing but a big grin all the way to the finish line.

Answer...line them up in three's.
 
Squad everyone together, TR and F Class. I don't think F Class should be squadded together unless it is an F Class Match. Two F Class shooters can make pretty quick work of a target with rested rifles and basically just chase the spotter from their last shot. Throwing a TR shooter into the mix will slow the F Class shooter down and make them read the conditions.
TR shooters would never ask to be squadded by class, Greenshots/ Greenshots, Sharpshooters/Sharpshooters, Experts/Experts, Masters/Masters, it should be random squadding. This is how people learn to become better shooters.
 
Keith, the point I am trying to make is that TR classes are not squadded together, so why not squad F class with TR. Some F Class shooter feel they are disadvantaged if they are squadded with a couple TR shooters. If one happens to be a cadet or an inexperienced shooter or even a more experienced shooter that takes their time between shots, it can be frustrating. Then you look over a see three F Class shooters pounding the target and shooting as fast as the marker can run it up.
I say squad them blindly for bigger matches. For smaller matches (less than 20 shooters) shuffle the match tickets like a deck of cards and assign the targets the relay before.
 
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maynard said:
Keith, the point I am trying to make is that TR classes are not squadded together, so why not squad F class with TR. Some F Class shooter feel they are disadvantaged if they are squadded with a couple TR shooters. If one happens to be a cadet or an inexperienced shooter or even a more experienced shooter that takes their time between shots, it can be frustrating. Then you look over a see three F Class shooters pounding the target and shooting as fast as the marker can run it up.
I say squad them blindly for bigger matches. For smaller matches (less than 20 shooters) shuffle the match tickets them like a deck of cards and assign the targets the relay before.
Click to expand...


I'm confused are we playing Texas Hold'em? Last I hear it was called the Mons range not Vegas! :) I'll raise you two Veebulls! or I'm all in at 15, your call!
 
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Keith, I think we've all been subjected to what we personally consider was an unfair squading. I remember not that many years ago being the odd F class shooter to be squaded 3 to a target and all the others were paired. Normally it wouldn't have bothered me but when it's a race for the agg, and your in the top 3, suddenly your stuck with 2 slower shooters when no one else is. I know it cost me a few points and possibly a win. To me, it would have made more sense to squad the bottom of the list with themselves and leave the top end guys to duke it out in an all's fair pair. I believe the bigger matches always squad the top guys together as the match progresses to eliminate this very occurence.

I know this sounds like #####ing but mine was not an unusual or unique situation. I've seen this happen at almost every match I've ever attended. I understand how you feel and why. Personally, I dont' mind getting beat by better shooters on the day or my poor condition interpretation, but I hate getting beat by shoody target service by uninterested kids or by TR shooters doubling as match coordinators with an untoward agenda regarding F Class. With these two against you it's impossible to shoot to your full potential. The only saving grace is; what goes around, comes around. It happens to the ones who need it from time to time and it's marvelous to watch when the shoe's on the other foot.

Press on.
Cheers, Glen
 
Tom, out here we've gotten away from mixed techinique squading. The simple reason is for the smaller target.

We've got TR guys shooting and the F Class guys are marking the regular 5/V scoring rings. Then the reverse with the TR guys marking the superimposed "Wee Vee" center as an F Class V and the TR V now becomes a 5 and so on. It has worked quite well for a couple of seasons now and we don't have to convert the scores to 6's anymore as the V has reverted to a tie breaker as originally intended.

I have shot F Class on the same target with Earl Brown shooting TR and after a minor glitch with values, got so we could easily interpret the TR score from the Fclass. It works great. I'm doubting this method would work at bigger events but for us it seems to be perfect.

At Chilliwack BC's Prov's last year, Bob Pitcairn just split the targets up. The first 15 for the TR shooters and the last 15 for F Class. Again for target scoring and ring size differential. It worked very well and I assume it will remain that way at future events. A bit of history and grand heritage may fall by the wayside, but I believe the evolution of the sport is nessesary to keep it alive and possibly even grow.

What I have noticed, at least locally, is that the younger shooters now entering the competitive stage of life, have no interest in in learning the shooting techniqes we were taught. In addition, very few have the patience or time to be able to do so. They just want to shoot. If that's what it takes to keep them interested and attending matches, I guess the word inevitable comes to mind.

Just my 10 cents
Cheers, Glen

PS: you guys are probably wondering how come I'm spending more time posting lately. Short answer; I do reports at 05:00 hours now so I'm not up til midnight anymore. Can't. Face falls into soup at 20:00 hours.
 
I agree with Inspector,

You randomly assign shooters for the first relay. It would be nice if you could reassign pairs after each relay with 1 and 2 high score shooting together, 3 and 4, 5 and 6 together and so on. To continue to put 1 and 6 together with 6 testing his deer rifle, and this has happened to me, is unfair when you are trying to win a match. It also puts the competing shooters on the same target with the same puller, and in the same lane on the range, and on the same relay. This is about as fair as it gets regarding same match conditions.


NormB
 
Come on Norm, how many times has someone been testing their deer rifle at 1000 yards during a match?
By random squadding everyone has a fair chance. I have come off the first relay of The Alexander of Tunis with a 46 and been happy because I have seen the winds really pick up later in the day. The relay at 1700 hrs shot zero wind, the winner shot a 50.9. Sometimes your the windshield, sometimes your the bug.
I think last year at Borden my relay stayed mostly dry, while the other relay got soaked 2 or 3 times during the match. While during other matches one relay would get all the wind changes while the other relay had steady wind.
Trying to re-squad relays between distance if you have more than one relay, and trying to keep 1&2, 3&4, 5&6 shooting together with every changing positions would be a nightmare.
 
Tom, you must have never shot east of Ontarible :nest: Guys are always firing their deer rifles at 1000 yds in a match, from 7WSM to 300 WM to 338 SDM's, out west, sometimes even braked!

I like Norm's way (morning draw at random, then pair top shooters together...1-2,3-4,5-6... as you go) and have seen it done at bigger events like Prov Championships (APRA, MPRA & SPRA), but then this re-squadding by placing is only done at the last and usually furthest yardage, and who you are paired with is the same except you rotate the firing points so everyone gets the bad or slow target marker.

It really is not a nightmare in Excel, since you can sort by yardage using the days end sort as you go, from yardage to yardage. And you could change from pairs to triples on the fly too at yardage changes, so hopefully no one shoots string, plus everyone will most likely shoot with everyone else by the end of it all, as placing changes by yardage. Putting say 1-2-3 together only handicaps the trio equally. Problem is you can never end up "just right" with odd or a prime number of shooters. Example, 11 shooters, you have 1 triple and 4 pairs or 3 triples and 1 pair, The bad part of pairing the best with the best is the worst never learn from the best.
 
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