Stacked beads?

ezsqueezy

ezsqueezy

Member
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
I shoot a Citori Special Sporting Clays, which supposedly has a 60/40 POI.

I've mostly shot trap, where I stack the beads in a "figure 8" or "snowman." If I use the same gun for sporting clays or other games where the bird isn't rising, should I continue to stack the beads, or shoot them flat (overlapping)? When they say the gun shoots 60/40, is this with the beads stacked or flat?

Thanks for any insight.
 
You theory is somewhat sound. Have you patterned it to see where it actually shoots? Does it have an adjustable comb? If yes, you could adjust it to shoot flat or slightly above POA for Sporting and back to 60/40 for trap.
 
The pattern board is the only way that you can tell where a gun shoots for you.
For finding point of impact, use sandbags to rest the gun, at 13 yards from the pattern paper.

You will benefit from reading Neil Winston over on Trapshooters.com, who authoritatively discusses shotgun POI vs. POA.
Neil has passed on to the great Trap range in the sky, but his writings are collected in a Thread.
 
Your point of impact theory is not quite right. Your use of sand bags is to check weather both barrels shoot in the same spot. Point of impact must be checked by the shooter mounting his or her gun on their shoulder at 16 yards using a full choke. That's the first step in gun fitting. From there you would make your adjustments to your gun so it will shoot where you are pointing. There are a number of factors involved in this, stock pitch,comb height. length of pull and cast. These factors determine where your gun will shoot and how consistent you will be when shoot your discipline.
 
bert pietrangelo said:
Your point of impact theory is not quite right. Your use of sand bags is to check weather both barrels shoot in the same spot. Point of impact must be checked by the shooter mounting his or her gun on their shoulder at 16 yards using a full choke. That's the first step in gun fitting. From there you would make your adjustments to your gun so it will shoot where you are pointing. There are a number of factors involved in this, stock pitch,comb height. length of pull and cast. These factors determine where your gun will shoot and how consistent you will be when shoot your discipline.
Click to expand...

100% bang on!
 
Don't place too much reliance on your center bead, it's main purpose is alignment and checking for cant before calling for the bird. It isn't (or shouldn't be) used in the actual swing/shot/ follow through sequence. Although rifle shooters sometimes have trouble adapting to the idea, the centre bead is not the rear sight, your eye is. Yes, stacking or superimposing your beads will move your point of impact up and down if held through the complete shooting sequence but one or the other ( or both) will compromise your natural hold and cost you targets. If you really want to use one gun for several different shotgun disciplines an adjustable stock certainly is an aid in fitting the gun tailored to the sport but as mentioned, pattern it to see what is actuually happening.
 
I have patterned to get a rough sense of where my gun shoots. Looks to shoot a little high and left, which might be one reason why I shoot station 1 better than station 5. The patterning may also have been one of the causes of my troubles with station 5, which was my favorite station before the patterning exercise. I need to think less and just shoot damnit!

My gun does not have an adjustable comb, I adjust to make it hit. I've inquired about adding one but that cost could buy many cases of shells. Or I could upgrade the gun when the right one comes around (I'd prefer 30" barrels anyway)

Here's my pattern at 16 yds, with T1 Mirage 7 1/2, out of an IM choke. I did both bench and shouldered.

view


view


EDIT, images not showing, here are links:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kFWUeVSZaIDVPMJHX7InAljgOKADRfE1/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NYQvBR5lH1FwJp-uZ87I1c6kKXrH_kmh/view?usp=sharing
 
Last edited:
Ashcroft said:
Don't place too much reliance on your center bead, it's main purpose is alignment and checking for cant before calling for the bird. It isn't (or shouldn't be) used in the actual swing/shot/ follow through sequence. Although rifle shooters sometimes have trouble adapting to the idea, the centre bead is not the rear sight, your eye is. Yes, stacking or superimposing your beads will move your point of impact up and down if held through the complete shooting sequence but one or the other ( or both) will compromise your natural hold and cost you targets. If you really want to use one gun for several different shotgun disciplines an adjustable stock certainly is an aid in fitting the gun tailored to the sport but as mentioned, pattern it to see what is actuually happening.
Click to expand...

I'm tempted to black out the beads entirely...finding myself checking way too often. I shoot better when I'm in the zone and just shoot instinctively. Might bring a roll of black electrical tape with me next weekend...
 
FYI: an excerpt from Browning's website re: POI - the full description can be found at https://www.browning.com/news/tech-terms/point-of-impact.html

Point of Impact Testing
Shotgun P.O.I. Testing Procedure
With our shotguns all POI testing is done in our test tunnels at 40 yards. The only exception to the 40 yard test would be the .410. By industry standard the .410 is tested at 25 yards. All guns are shot from a shooting bench using a front and rear rest much the same as what a bench rest shooter would use. A sheet of paper approximately 5’ square is used with a center aiming point of 6 inches.

The shooter will use the sight picture appropriate for the type of shotgun being tested. A flat sight picture is used for Field, Skeet and Sporting Clays and a Figure 8 or stacked bead picture for Trap Guns. In all cases a 6 o’clock front sight hold on the target is used. 6 o’clock hold means sight bead held at the 6 o’clock position on the aim point.

The target is shot 3 times, the same as one would do to shoot a 3 shot group with a rifle. The purpose of the 3 shots is to give a denser pattern to work with. After 3 shots the pattern paper is recovered and a template 30 inches in diameter with a center hole is placed on the pattern and moved around to cover the most shot and the center marked. Removing the template, the shooter will measure from the center of the pattern to the center of the aiming pint; up, down, right or left.

With these measurements one can determine where the center of the pattern is in relationship to the aiming point.
 
FIMMICS said:
FYI: an excerpt from Browning's website re: POI - the full description can be found at https://www.browning.com/news/tech-terms/point-of-impact.html

Point of Impact Testing
Shotgun P.O.I. Testing Procedure
With our shotguns all POI testing is done in our test tunnels at 40 yards. The only exception to the 40 yard test would be the .410. By industry standard the .410 is tested at 25 yards. All guns are shot from a shooting bench using a front and rear rest much the same as what a bench rest shooter would use. A sheet of paper approximately 5’ square is used with a center aiming point of 6 inches.

The shooter will use the sight picture appropriate for the type of shotgun being tested. A flat sight picture is used for Field, Skeet and Sporting Clays and a Figure 8 or stacked bead picture for Trap Guns. In all cases a 6 o’clock front sight hold on the target is used. 6 o’clock hold means sight bead held at the 6 o’clock position on the aim point.

The target is shot 3 times, the same as one would do to shoot a 3 shot group with a rifle. The purpose of the 3 shots is to give a denser pattern to work with. After 3 shots the pattern paper is recovered and a template 30 inches in diameter with a center hole is placed on the pattern and moved around to cover the most shot and the center marked. Removing the template, the shooter will measure from the center of the pattern to the center of the aiming pint; up, down, right or left.

With these measurements one can determine where the center of the pattern is in relationship to the aiming point.
Click to expand...

Awesome info, thanks FIMMACS!
 
ezsqueezy said:
I have patterned to get a rough sense of where my gun shoots. Looks to shoot a little high and left, which might be one reason why I shoot station 1 better than station 5. The patterning may also have been one of the causes of my troubles with station 5, which was my favorite station before the patterning exercise. I need to think less and just shoot damnit!

My gun does not have an adjustable comb, I adjust to make it hit. I've inquired about adding one but that cost could buy many cases of shells. Or I could upgrade the gun when the right one comes around (I'd prefer 30" barrels anyway)

Here's my pattern at 16 yds, with T1 Mirage 7 1/2, out of an IM choke. I did both bench and shouldered.

view


view


EDIT, images not showing, here are links:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kFWUeVSZaIDVPMJHX7InAljgOKADRfE1/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NYQvBR5lH1FwJp-uZ87I1c6kKXrH_kmh/view?usp=sharing
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with those patterns for trap.
Don't force yourself to line up the beads. Learn where the gun shoots and shoot it. Too much thinking can become a problem.
 
What you are reading is the method of regulating barrels for same impact point after manufacturing. No where does it mention that this is for shooter who is trying to a line his sight picture with the gun. Last time I shot at sporting clay or for that matter any shot gun discipline I wasn't using a bench or test tunnels.
 
One of the questions was "When they say the gun shoots 60/40, is this with the beads stacked or flat?"

The Browning website answers that question for their own guns. Nothing else implied.
 
Fully understanding that each gun will shoot differently for each person, it's also interesting to know how it was designed to be used. Theoretical + practical knowledge.
 
ezsqueezy said:
My gun does not have an adjustable comb, I adjust to make it hit. I've inquired about adding one but that cost could buy many cases of shells. Or I could upgrade the gun when the right one comes around (I'd prefer 30" barrels anyway)
Click to expand...

As mentioned the patterns are great for trap, Something like a rapid comb or a Beretta Gel Tek pad could bring down the POI for shooting sporting clays.
 
Maritime Storm said:
As mentioned the patterns are great for trap, Something like a rapid comb or a Beretta Gel Tek pad could bring down the POI for shooting sporting clays.
Click to expand...

I actually considered trying the Beretta Gel pad. To get the POI posted, I actually mount lightly to the side of my face. When I mount properly to the cheek, my eye is below the rib.

The gel pad would probably get my eye to the right height so I can mount to the cheek, but the issue is it would also push the POI more to the left. I suppose I could adjust by cheeking in harder.

Like others have said, I've just gotten used to where the gun shoots.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom