Stag AR15 ammunition

enefgee said:
This is another relevant issue - I've seen Federal 62 grain .223 come out of the box with NATO headstamps - at very least the case is the 'lower capacity' 5.56 since NATO doesn't use 223. In addition, Win White Box 55 grain is M193 either from Winchester itself or from IMI for Winchester; M193 is not a 223 load.
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Not exactly... first off, Federal (AIK) runs the Lake City plant where M193 is made and they often use brass interchangeably between their .223 and M193 (M855) production... for the record, M193 is not a NATO spec... M855 is however. This is why you might see a NATO cross on Federal .223.

As for the Winchester white box, only particular part numbers are M193 loads, and are marked as 5.56 not .223. Q3131A is M193 made by IMI, and Q3131A1 is M193 spec ammo made in Korea, presumably by PMC but I can't confirm that. The Winchester white box that we see here is all .223 with part numbers of USA223R1 for the 55 grain and USA223R3 for 62 grain.

If you look here you'll note that Winchester explicitly calls the Q3131 loads 5.56...

http://www.winchester.com/Products/rifle-ammunition/usa/full-metal-jacket/Pages/default.aspx
 
roadking56 said:
I am looking at buying the Stag AR15 carbine model 1.
The specs on the Canadian site say 556/223 and .223 is stamped on the rifle
The specs on the U.S. sites say 223/5.56 NATO chamber and it looks like 5.56 is stamped on the rifle.
So can you buy and shoot 5.56 ammo in Canada? Are these rifles different in US and Canada or is it just politics.?
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I'd bet dollars to donuts if you chamber cast your .223 chamber it would come out remarkably close if not identical to a 5.56 nato chamber....

I'm not sold on the controversy. I've yet to see consistancy between any factory ammunition or components of the two to believe they are that far apart.

For example:
I have nato stamped brass that has more overall capacity than some commercial stuff, despite the internet bleating on about how all of the nato stuff is thicker and will raise pressures...
I've had winchester 55gr. commercially marked as .223 clock faster than some M193...
I've had both commercial and nato marked winchester brass measure out to exactly the same...
I've never seen ANY packaged 5.56 nato or .223 ammo come out of the box/bag/stripper with a longer loaded overall length of 2.260" and the majority is 2.250" or less...making the leade and freebore arguement causing raised pressures somewhat limp.

Can anyone here tell me what percentage of over-pressure is engineered into typical .223 barrels? how about 5.56?
 
Just shoot the ammo - way too much thinking in this case. If your .223 marked rifle has problems like popping primer or extracting failure, then you can go figure out the chamber issue .
 
kenjuudo said:
Not exactly... first off, Federal (AIK) runs the Lake City plant where M193 is made and they often use brass interchangeably between their .223 and M193 (M855) production... for the record, M193 is not a NATO spec... M855 is however. This is why you might see a NATO cross on Federal .223.
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I realize M193 is not a NATO spec, it is however a 5.56mm loading. The issue of ATK using brass interchangeably between 5.56 and 223 loads really brings into question the case capacity argument.
 
Yep!

jennis said:
Before the internet came along I mixed both 223/556 and 762/308 will I now experience a decades delayed 'supernova' ?
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Did the same as you for many years - still do -

Still no supernova -
swingerlh.gif
 
enefgee said:
I realize M193 is not a NATO spec, it is however a 5.56mm loading. The issue of ATK using brass interchangeably between 5.56 and 223 loads really brings into question the case capacity argument.
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That would depend at least in part on the powder used... the commercial guys use cannister grade powders that you and I can't get...
 
jdman said:
Can you confirm this with certainty?

I have one from 1985, and was wondering if i could shoot the good stuff through it.
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Yes - The Ranch and Mini Thirty, but not the Mini 14 Target... it's chambered for .223 Remington only... The following is copied from the Mini manual on Ruger's site, a link for which is below... go to page 12.

"The Mini-14 Ranch and Mini Thirty Rifles are designed to use either standardized U.S. military, or factory loaded sporting cartridges manufactured in accordance with U.S. industry practice. Always be careful to ensure you are using the correct ammunition for your rifle. See “Ammunition Notice” & “Warning - Ammunition,” below."

http://www.ruger.com/products/_manuals/mini.pdf
 
I talked to Stag tech people and all Stags are chambered 5.56 which of course accomodates the .223, BUT not all manufacturers do this and NO you should not be pumping 5.56 through a .223 chamber. I am just an entry level newb in the AR world but it doesn't take long to figure out the physics. thanks to Boltgun for logical assessment of the situation.
 
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