Starting loads for 455 Webley?

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I have a couple of Webley MkVI revolvers in 455. I also have 400 of Jethunters 265gr 455 hollow base bullets and a bunch of Fiocchi 455 mkII brass.

I have 1lb of Titegroup and 1lb of Unique powder.

Does anyone have any load data for either of these powders with this bullet and brass combination?

Thanks.
 
Been reloading 455 for a little over a year now for 3 revolvers. After countless squibs and questionably heavy loads I have settles on a few loads after loading about 1000 rds.
So here is a few pointers with my limited experience and the powders, bullets, and brass you have (and I have/had).

1. Forget Titegroup. It's way too fast and is better saved for a 357 magnum than an antique. Seriously I use it in my 357!

2. I use Unique with good results. Has a gentle power curve for a smokeless powder and is used by many folks for 455's. above 220gr projectiles use no more than 4.3gr. Below 220gr use no more than 4.4gr. Many use 4.5gr and I have tried as much as 4.8gr but I don't recommend it ad I don't go that high any more.

3. I hate Fiocchi 455 brass. I have some and the reason I hate it is the small primer pocket. Starline and if you can find Hornady(discontinued) brass is large primer. The small primer gives much less velocity from incomplete combustion of powder. If you do use the Fiocchi brass at least use small magnum primers and you should only lose 100-150ft/s over what large primers would give you.

Cheers
Moe
 
3. I hate Fiocchi 455 brass. I have some and the reason I hate it is the small primer pocket. Starline and if you can find Hornady(discontinued) brass is large primer. The small primer gives much less velocity from incomplete combustion of powder. If you do use the Fiocchi brass at least use small magnum primers and you should only lose 100-150ft/s over what large primers would give you.

Cheers
Moe

What about using small rifle or small rifle magnum primers?
 
What about using small rifle or small rifle magnum primers?

I haven't tried them. They would be more likely to misfire in a revolver as they are harder than pistol primers.
I don't believe there are small magnum rifle primers but now I am curious about small rifle primers.

Cheers
Moe
 
I haven't tried them. They would be more likely to misfire in a revolver as they are harder than pistol primers.
I don't believe there are small magnum rifle primers but now I am curious about small rifle primers.

Cheers
Moe

My friend, there is no primer built today that a MKVI Webley will not hit hard enough to make it fire!

Scott
 
I haven't tried them. They would be more likely to misfire in a revolver as they are harder than pistol primers.
I don't believe there are small magnum rifle primers but now I am curious about small rifle primers.

Cheers
Moe

There are magnum small rifle and small pistol primers. If you need a really hot primer, look for Remington small pistol primers.
 
This is from an article I came across a long time ago. It's the load I use in my Antique revolvers, chambered to accept the 455 Webley.

Many antique pistols have generous chambers and will also be marked for 476 cartridges. These were from the BLACK POWDER era.

The reason they used hollow base/skirted bullets was because bores and cylinder throats were all over the spectrum. Same goes for the diameters of the bullets available at the time.

I have also used BP to load the oldest pistol, which is an RIC model, built in Belgium and British marked with pre 1898 stamps. The BP load is actually more consistent but the clean up later is a real chore.

One big mistake a lot of people make when reloading this old cartridge is they forget to CRIMP the case mouths. Some don't believe it's needed. IMHO it's critical to decent consistent accuracy.

If you're shooting the MkVI break action types, they're the strongest of the type and stronger than even the early solid frame RIC types. The strongest revolvers chambered for the round are likely the Single Action Colts and the double action Smith and Wesson/Colt models 1917.

These lovely old handguns really don't deserve to be loaded hotter than the load below. It's hard on them and you will get leading.

Solids, such as those sold by Western Metal will work well IF THEY MATCH YOUR BORE.

Some folks get very perturbed when mentioning jacketed bullets.

Due to the requirements of the Hague Convention, lead bullets were prohibited. Soooooo in 1939 they issued ammunition with copper jacketed 454 diameter, 265 grain bullets with three stab style crimps.



.455 Handloads
In my experience, my .455 Webley handloads are clean-burning and much more accurate than the available factory ammunition. For comparative purposes, I shot a box of newly manufactured Fiocchi ammunition. The average velocity for these rounds was 601 feet per second (fps). My best group with this factory-loaded ammunition
measured 2.75 inches across.
For my .455 Webley handloads, I load a .454-inch, 255-grain, lead, semi-wadcutter bullet over 6.8 grains of Alliant Blue Dot powder. I like using Blue Dot because I can use 100-percent density loads, with no airspace between the bullet and the powder. I find that 100-percent density loads burn more consistently than tiny loads of faster-burning powders that move around inside the cartridge case. I used once-fired Fiocchi .455 brass, which takes small pistol primers. This load generates a 12,600 psi chamber pressure, so it should be safe to shoot in all .455 Webley revolvers.
The actual loading procedure I use for .455 Webley rounds is a little more painstaking than my standard procedure. I use an RCBS single-stage press, and I de-prime, size and prime the brass as usual. Then I expand the case mouths and I get ready to charge the cases with powder. Because the .455 Webley Mk II cases are so short, I am very careful with the powder charge. With a short case like this, it’s easy to get into an over-pressure situation by going just a couple of tenths of a grain over the maximum charge.
To make sure that doesn’t happen, I weigh each charge. First, I set my RCBS Uniflow Powder Measure to throw a charge that is 3/10 of a grain too light. Then I use a Redding Powder Trickler to dole out a flake of powder at a time, over the pan of my digital scale, until I reach 6.8 grains of Blue Dot powder. Then I charge the brass. After that, I seat the bullets with a good, solid roll crimp.
This load has been very accurate for me. During the shooting session for this article, my best 25-yard group with this load was 0.5 inches across. Most groups were between 1 inch and 2 inches in diameter. Velocity with this load averages 683 fps, which is certainly hotter than the Fiocchi load, but it is still a mild shooting round in the big Webley.
 
I have been wanting to try Blue Dot. I have read and seen a vid saying that Blue Dot fills the case more lending to better combustion and therefore consistency. I will go that way but for now I am sitting on 2lbs of Unique.

I did try Red Dot but could not safely get the velocity higher than the low 500's. Blue Dot will be my next powder to try.

I am not shooting hinged Webley's. I have a solid frame Webley RIC and Webley MP. Both are were worked on in the past to shoot 455 MkII. I used MkII brass until this winter but switched to 450 Adams length by just trimming back the brass to .690 . This helped with ejection a bit but more importantly by having a shorter case and corresponding shorter OAL I have more complete combustion and consistency. The chronograph has showed a mean spread of only 40fps now.

As stated above by Bearhunter, an aggressive crimp makes a big difference too. A must to stop bullet jump and help consistency.

Cheers
Moe
 
My wife and I got to shoot a guy's SAA in 45 LC yesterday. It had been loaded with Trail Boss. I stayed away from this powder as I believed it to be as messy as black powder. Didn't find it any messier than the Unique I'm using now but with a gentler push and no unburnt powder at all. A friend suggested it for my Webley's but after shooting that 45 LC I might try it in my antiques now. So do you just fill the case like black powder?

Thoughts about this stuff?

Cheers
Moe
 
Sounds reasonable to use 3.9gr of Unique. I would go a bit stiffer at 4.3gr. I hate squibs and had plenty. I now use Trailboss. It is giving me higher velocities, lower pressure, gentler push, cleaner burning, and complete combustion than Unique. I use 3.8gr of Trailboss for bullets under 220gr.

Cheers
Moe
 
4.5 gr Unique is my go-to on this cartridge. The pistols are gone but I've a handful or two of brass remaining. And a 45 LC mold that works well too.
But mine were S & W and Colt...not Webleys
 
Don't freak out. You should be able to use .450 to .454 bullets without risk. The most a mismatch would do is affect accuracy.

Cheers
Moe
 
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