Starting to load cast bullets for 45-70
- Thread starter GcG166
- Start date
- Location
- castlegar B.C.
F=Flat nose
C will be before the bullet diameter if its a gas check design
Ex. C430-310-RF will be a gas check bullet .430" diameter 310 grain round flat nose profile.
Lee often cast smaller than their designation however and more often than not smaller than is really usable. The exception seems to be their 30 cal molds. I have 4 of their .309 molds that cast larger, one casts .311" with wheel weights.
My C430-310-RF however only casts .4285 or so
My .457-405-F was barely casting .457 on the seam side.
I beagled that mold and powder coat it to fit my marlin bore.
C will be before the bullet diameter if its a gas check design
Ex. C430-310-RF will be a gas check bullet .430" diameter 310 grain round flat nose profile.
Lee often cast smaller than their designation however and more often than not smaller than is really usable. The exception seems to be their 30 cal molds. I have 4 of their .309 molds that cast larger, one casts .311" with wheel weights.
My C430-310-RF however only casts .4285 or so
My .457-405-F was barely casting .457 on the seam side.
I beagled that mold and powder coat it to fit my marlin bore.
- Location
- The Conservative part of Ontario
Many years ago, there were gas checks that were "slip on" they were not intended to be crimped and fell off in flight frequently. Never used them myself, the idea that they might fall off inside the case bugged me, although it probably would make little difference.
also years back, I couldn't get a sizing die for the 303Br I was playing with. Now, like the OP, the bullet size was where I wanted it anyway, I just wanted to seat the gas check.
What I did was to take an old pair of pliers, and carefully drill a hole through the wire cutter of appropriate size to make myself a crimper. This worked amazingly well. Finding a pair of pliers large enough to do this on 45-70 might be a bit of a challenge though.
The rule of thumb is that cast bullet size should be about 2 thousandths over bore diameter for best accuracy. Measurement best achieved by slugging your bore. Inside bore diameters are all over the map generally, so don't go by factory specs.
Gas check bullets have a small base to fit the gas check on it's clearly visible in the picture of the finished bullet furnished with the mold in question.
Gas check design
Plain base
also years back, I couldn't get a sizing die for the 303Br I was playing with. Now, like the OP, the bullet size was where I wanted it anyway, I just wanted to seat the gas check.
What I did was to take an old pair of pliers, and carefully drill a hole through the wire cutter of appropriate size to make myself a crimper. This worked amazingly well. Finding a pair of pliers large enough to do this on 45-70 might be a bit of a challenge though.
The rule of thumb is that cast bullet size should be about 2 thousandths over bore diameter for best accuracy. Measurement best achieved by slugging your bore. Inside bore diameters are all over the map generally, so don't go by factory specs.
Gas check bullets have a small base to fit the gas check on it's clearly visible in the picture of the finished bullet furnished with the mold in question.
Gas check design Plain baseAttachments
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hatman1793
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Thank you for your question Big Bore. I have had no issues with my PC bullets in my 45-70 Marlin. The bore is easily cleaned with a couple of swipes. Of course the bullet base gets powder coated too, so it kinda acts like a gas check.
Unless you are pushing a light 45-70 bullet to 2000 fps or better, I might switch out to factory ammo, but why? At 1600 fps with a quality powder coat, I think the mostly only limiting factor is recoil. At 1600 fps recoil is manageable, but when I pushed my 340 RNFP bullet past that with more powder, the recoil became punishing.
Okay, accuracy is very good too. I switched out the OEM buckhorn sights to the superior XS picatinny rail & sight set. Way better there. Good accuracy, no tumbling & nice groups....
Unless you are pushing a light 45-70 bullet to 2000 fps or better, I might switch out to factory ammo, but why? At 1600 fps with a quality powder coat, I think the mostly only limiting factor is recoil. At 1600 fps recoil is manageable, but when I pushed my 340 RNFP bullet past that with more powder, the recoil became punishing.
Okay, accuracy is very good too. I switched out the OEM buckhorn sights to the superior XS picatinny rail & sight set. Way better there. Good accuracy, no tumbling & nice groups....
- Location
- Western Manitoba
Sort of new to the casting business so been doing lots of reading. Several mentions above about slugging the bore. From Veral Smith, he really puts emphasis on the throat size - to the extent he sells (sold) a "throat packing kit" to get a measurement - the diameter ahead of the neck but before the rifling starts - sometimes called "free bore", as near as I can follow. Could do a Cerrosafe chamber cast to get same dimension. Just trying with a new-to-me 9.3x57 - chose to open necks from 8x57 brass, then seated a .368" sized cast bullet - so .002" nominally larger than bore groove diameter, and I did slug the bore - three different slugs. If I flare the case mouth, I can feel that "flare" drag as that case enters the case mouth - not there if I try to chamber that round a second time, so must be very close to the chamber neck diameter, with that bullet seated. No markings on the bullets forward of the case mouth - it has a "bore rider" nose portion that will not readily enter the muzzle, so I think I am close. Have not fired it yet - waiting on an M die and a Lee Factory Crimp Die to get those necks "smoother" as they enter the neck the first time.
Just wanted to give an update. Now i have my pure lead, lead tin alloy and some wheel weights. About 14 pounds of each.
Doing the pencil tests it looks like my pure lead is 4-5bhn, alloy looking like 13bhn and ww at 14. Im questioning the big difference in the pure lead and lead tin mix. Maybe the cheap drawkng pencils or just me.
Also looking to take a deer with my 45 70 and hoping to do it with a bullet i cast myself. I have a 350gr mold and a 500gr gc mold. What would be your suggestion for a mold/lead combo? Ill load some up this week and shoot the weekend
Doing the pencil tests it looks like my pure lead is 4-5bhn, alloy looking like 13bhn and ww at 14. Im questioning the big difference in the pure lead and lead tin mix. Maybe the cheap drawkng pencils or just me.
Also looking to take a deer with my 45 70 and hoping to do it with a bullet i cast myself. I have a 350gr mold and a 500gr gc mold. What would be your suggestion for a mold/lead combo? Ill load some up this week and shoot the weekend
fingers284
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Alberta Cowboy Ranges
The 350 gr slug should work perfect in your Marlin Levergun feeding through the magazine but the .500 gr may present some issues both in feeding from the mag and chambering. The 500 is a looonng slug that when seated to the crimp ring only, it will be a much too long OA cartridge length to feed from the mag (when the "next round" comes out of the tube and reaches its limit on the elevator, the nose of the slug will still be a long ways inside the tube). These slugs can be used in some Marlins by seating very deep in the case but sometimes the "sea-gull-swallowing a mouse" throat bulge that far down in the case becomes very tight to chamber. They can be used at an OAL crimped to the crimp ring but have to be fed one at a time thru the ejection port.
I was told by another member that the mold was ment to be used in lever guns before purchasing. I have a 450gr mold that wont cycle when seated to the crimp ring. The 500gr mold has a crimp ring thats maybe just 1 or 2 mm further back than the 350. They cycle fine seated to the crimp ring. Im new so maybe theres something else im missing. Thsy will take up quite a bit of the case but i dont think i was a hot 500gr bullet lol
https://precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=RC&i=82054
https://precisionreloading.com/cart.php#!l=RC&i=82054
There are 3 of the RCBS molds that share the same nose profile. A 300, a 405, and a 500, all gas check design. All will feed through a lever action without issue.
As to seating depth, it can be argued that the 45-70 case has excess powder capacity for modern smokeless powder as it was designed for black. I assure you that recoil will be the limiting factor in load development, not lack of powder space
I load a 500, deep seated(chamber has effectively no throat) in a very tight chambered single shot rifle with no issues. 30 grains of H4198 gives me close to 1400FPS and kills large game quite nicely. Recoil is brisk, but manageable, and there is still plenty of room for more powder. Accuracy is around 2 MOA with open sights, which is likely as good as I can shoot without optics.
Stomp
As to seating depth, it can be argued that the 45-70 case has excess powder capacity for modern smokeless powder as it was designed for black. I assure you that recoil will be the limiting factor in load development, not lack of powder space
I load a 500, deep seated(chamber has effectively no throat) in a very tight chambered single shot rifle with no issues. 30 grains of H4198 gives me close to 1400FPS and kills large game quite nicely. Recoil is brisk, but manageable, and there is still plenty of room for more powder. Accuracy is around 2 MOA with open sights, which is likely as good as I can shoot without optics.
Stomp
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To add.
My preferred alloy is in the 8bhn range, 30 to one or 70-30 pure to ww alloy. This is a pic of a 300# plus black bear, killed with the same alloy at a velocity of only 1100 fps, and only 280 grains of bullet weight from a 45 colt. The 45-70 is just more of a good thing. I've killed somewhere around 20 big game animals with 45-70 and soft cast bullets.
As with anything, bullet placement is the key.
Some 45-70 kills.
Stomp
My preferred alloy is in the 8bhn range, 30 to one or 70-30 pure to ww alloy. This is a pic of a 300# plus black bear, killed with the same alloy at a velocity of only 1100 fps, and only 280 grains of bullet weight from a 45 colt. The 45-70 is just more of a good thing. I've killed somewhere around 20 big game animals with 45-70 and soft cast bullets.
As with anything, bullet placement is the key.
Some 45-70 kills.
Stomp
Thanks for the info. I didn't load any 500 gr yet but when i put it next to the case it looked like it took up a lot of it.
Will be cool to test loads with it and feel the recoil difference. I only really reload for a .223 and 6.5 creedmoor with a muzzle break now so not much recoil
Will be cool to test loads with it and feel the recoil difference. I only really reload for a .223 and 6.5 creedmoor with a muzzle break now so not much recoil
I was surprised how little it kicks with medium loads
My hunting rounds are cast from straight COWWs. I use the NOE .460-429 mold and I gas check them by running them through a Lee push through sizer I opened up to .4595". I push these at about 1500 fps with a charge of AA5744. They shoot great, group well, and have killed everything I have pulled the trigger on.
