Starting to reach out a bit further, not sure how I did.

223submoa

223submoa

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Hey Guys,

I shot my furthest group today to date, and I can't figure out whether or not to be pleased with it. I set a paper target and some steel out at 480 yards, and used shooter for android to get on target on the steel, then shot a group on the paper. Winds were fairly light but intermittent. The rifle will hold about 3/4 moa at 100 yards if I'm shooting really well, so I guess I was expecting a little better performance than this. I have virtually no experience shooting at this distance, I usually stay between 100-350 yards. Is another 130 yards typically this much more difficult? I feel like I could have done a better job of reading the wind and tightened this group up, but that will come with experience I suppose. This is the group:

500yardmeasuredtarget_zps836c73e3.jpg
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What's your load? Are you using a heavy enough pill to shoot that far? How about your setup? Shooting position? That'll give us more to go on.
The group in the pic is great if you were shooting offhand....
 
I'm shooting prone off of a bipod and a rear bag. The load is a 69gr sierra match king with 23.5gr of benchmark. The rifle is the one in my sig. Those specs are up to date.

MadMarty said:
What's your load? Are you using a heavy enough pill to shoot that far? How about your setup? Shooting position? That'll give us more to go on.
The group in the pic is great if you were shooting offhand....
Click to expand...
 
I would take a look at your vertical component first and be a little less concern with the left and right at this time. If you're holding 3/4" at 100 then you should be getting ~ <=5" at 480yds. You're getting a little more than 7" so something is causing your MV to be a little higher. If you discount your highest shot than the three shots just right of the aim point is within that range is holding good vertical. However 4 shots really doesn't tell much of a story.

Are you able to number your shots from 1-4 it could tell a story about how your barrel is reacting to heat. Shoot a few more rounds 5+ and plot it to see if your barrel is rising with the heat. If it is bedding would be a good start, next I would look at your ES and MV. Focus on one variable at a time.

Other things to consider make sure you're pre-loading your bipod the same way every time to pull the trigger. How is your trigger weight light or heavy? Jerky or smooth? Just some thoughts.
 
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I suspect that I wasn't loading the bipod consistently. Thinking about it now, I wasn't in the most comfortable firing position due to uneven ground. Do you think I would reap any benefits from bedding just the recoil lug area? The thought of bedding the whole thing makes me very uneasy, and my rifle budget is blown for this year and probably next with the scope I just purchased. They were also new cases I was shooting today, so I'll try some fire formed ones next time I go out. What does ES stand for? I'm not sure which shot is which, as I couldn't see the bullet holes at that distance. I will try a shoot and see target next time to keep track. Thanks for the input.

308BAR said:
I would take a look at your vertical component first and be a little less concern with the left and right at this time. If you're holding 3/4" at 100 then you should be getting ~ <=5" at 480yds. You're getting a little more than 7" so something is causing your MV to be a little higher. If you discount your highest shot than the three shots just right of the aim point is within that range is holding good vertical. However 4 shots really doesn't tell much of a story.

Are you able to number your shots from 1-4 it could tell a story about how your barrel is reacting to heat. Shoot a few more rounds 5+ and plot it to see your barrel is rising with the heat. If it is bedding would be a good start, next I would look at your ES and MV. Focus on one variable at a time.

Other things to consider make sure you're pre-loading your bipod the same way every time to pull the trigger. How is your trigger weight light or heavy? Jerky or smooth? Just some thoughts.
Click to expand...
 
223submoa said:
I suspect that I wasn't loading the bipod consistently. Thinking about it now, I wasn't in the most comfortable firing position due to uneven ground. Do you think I would reap any benefits from bedding just the recoil lug area? The thought of bedding the whole thing makes me very uneasy, and my rifle budget is blown for this year and probably next with the scope I just purchased. They were also new cases I was shooting today, so I'll try some fire formed ones next time I go out. What does ES stand for? I'm not sure which shot is which, as I couldn't see the bullet holes at that distance. I will try a shoot and see target next time to keep track. Thanks for the input.
Click to expand...

ES = Extreme Spread difference of your Highest Muzzle Velocity and Lowest MV. HMV - LMV = ES 3000fps - 2900fps = 100 fps ES. Faster the MV should give you a higher POI. So your highest shot may have a faster MV than your other shots.

You could keep track of your shots by using a different colour sharpies to colour the bullet tips and recording which one you shot first. The bullet will leave a trace colour on your target.

Regarding bedding if you do it yourself, it is the cost of a package of JB Weld, sand paper and a small tin of Kiwi neutral shoe polish. Lots of tutorials online on how to do it. It would improve accuracy because you're using the bedding to secure support your action and you'll eliminate an equipment variable. How much accuracy you gain? Answer is it will vary from rifle to rifle. If not wait it out I would just loosen the action bolts a little and make sure the recoil lug is seated against the stocks (aluminum bedding block if you stock has one) then torque the action bolts down.
 
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Alright, so a little more progress. I've bedded the action of my rifle. I went out shooting today using the same load but with fire formed brass this time. My shooting position was a little bit better, and I felt I was a little more "on" today. I shot this group, which was a little more what I was expecting with what the rifle can do at 100:

500yardbetterontarget_zpsf7557ff4.jpg
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Maybe a more defined aiming mark would help, yours looks a little small for shooting 480 yards. Use a 6 inch black square and shoot at the corners.
 
Thank you, that's a good suggestion. I'll give that a try next time. I have the same target dots, but they are about 6" across. I'll give those a try, as well as the squares you suggest.

maynard said:
Maybe a more defined aiming mark would help, yours looks a little small for shooting 480 yards. Use a 6 inch black square and shoot at the corners.
Click to expand...
 
maynard said:
Maybe a more defined aiming mark would help, yours looks a little small for shooting 480 yards. Use a 6 inch black square and shoot at the corners.
Click to expand...

This was the one thing that helped shrink my groups under the 0.5MOA point I had been stuck at.(I actually think it was maynard who suggested it!) Also, from a mental perspective, if I want to shoot really small, I want my POI/POA to be way different, so I cannot see my group forming or lack there of.
 
How can a rifle,load etc be ruled out until you can shoot like a machine?
I always work on SHOOTING FORM, SHOOTING FORM, SHOOTING FORM,
and also remember the old expression Practise DOES NOT make perfect......PERFECT PRACTISE MAKES PERFECT
 
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