Steel shot and velocity

CoryTheCowboy

CoryTheCowboy

CGN Regular
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A decrepit duck blind in Atikokan, ON
Hey guys,

I've been waterfowl hunting for about the past 10 years or so, and I've always tried to get the fastest steel possible (at least 1500 FPS). I was told that with steel "speed kills" so I was sacrificing shot weight for speed (1560FPS and 1 1/8oz).

However, during the past two years I've occasionally hunted with factory Federal #4 in the 16 Gauge "only" going 1350 FPS and have absolutely hammered ducks and geese out to 30 yards and great patterns too.

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Then I watched this Youtube video

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Tom Roster seems to be a respected ballistician and he makes some impressive shots.

I got to thinking I should at least test some slower steel with a heavier payload.

Any thoughts? Opinions? Experiences?

Cory
 
For sure. Have you patterned both Cory , speed does still kill but 30 yards is not very far for geese and I bet that old 16ga just loves those slow no.4's and gives a tight pattern. Add that to your shooting skills and the poor birds are getting smoked.
:)
I had the 10ga over 1650 but had to cut back, was taking the guts right out of them in the air, legs flying off the works when I was on the bird and not just once. After taking three one day over decoys at about 25 yards with not a breast saved and the wad in one it was time to regroup. Back now to around 1300-1400 duplex loads now and much better results.
 
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That video featuring Roster is an eye opener. I killed alot of ducks and some geese with the Federal factory 16 steel load you mentioned. Most shots about 35 yards some closer some further. I am looking forward to this fall shooting my 16's using Remington and Federal steel loads in #2 and #4 shot. I have alot of high velocity steel but I will back shelve it for this season. Speed does kill with steel loads but after all dead is dead.

Darryl
 
Facts:
1. Steel is lighter than lead.
2. Lead kills with velocity x mass.
3. To compensate for the lack of mass, steel must be shot at greater velocities.

Dilemma:
1. Due to lack of mass, steel loses velocity quicker than lead.
2. Will larger pellets compensate for lack of mass and drop in quicker drops in velocities vs. lead?

Solution:
1. Tungsten or Bismuth shot. Expensive but effective and can be shot in older shotguns with fixed chokes without blowing them up in pieces!
 
3macs1 said:
For sure. Have you patterned both Cory , speed does still kill but 30 yards is not very far for geese and I bet that old 16ga just loves those slow no.4's and gives a tight pattern. Add that to your shooting skills and the poor birds are getting smoked.
:)
I had the 10ga over 1650 but had to cut back, was taking the guts right out of them in the air, legs flying off the works when I was on the bird and not just once. After taking three one day over decoys at about 25 yards with not a breast saved and the wad in one it was time to regroup. Back now to around 1300-1400 duplex loads now and much better results.
Click to expand...

I don't know if I do "textbook" patterning, but I always shoot loads on paper (usually at 40 yards) to see what they're doing. I don't live in an area with a ton of waterfowl, so I want to give myself any advantage I can.

I've shot "slow" (~1350 FPS) and "fast" (~1550 FPS) in all my guns except my Auto-5 Mag Twelve (which I happened to shoot the most the past year). My Ithaca 37 in 16 Gauge likes them as fast as I can push them in #6 steel, while my Remington Sportsman 16 Gauge prefers the factory Federal load (but surprisingly dislikes my handloads at the same velocity).

I shot Kent Fasteel #3 at 1560 FPS last year out of my Auto-5 Mag Twelve and killed a bunch (for our area) of ducks. Missed more than I care to think about as well ;) I'll definitely pattern some slow steel this summer and see how they compare.

I just wanted some opinions and thoughts to get me through the winter ;) Thanks guys

Cory
 
I like fast steel loads as long as the pattern is also good. I have not had good patterns from the Federal 16 steel loads that I have used, so I was disappointed with them. It's likely a problem with my gun, not the loads themselves.
I shoot a lot of waterfowl each fall, and find the 12g a 2-3/4" loads of #1, 2, or 3 shot in 1-1/16 to 1-1/8 oz all shoot well out of my Win M12 with aftermarket Hastings barrel and a modified choke. The faster shells kill a little better, but not much.
In my Citori 16, the Kent Tungsten Matrix 1-1/16 oz of #5 at about 1300 fps are amazing. The patterns are dense and even. Pellets penetrate even medium sized geese very well. This shell in my 16 ga kills as well as my 12 ga with steel.
So if Federal "slow" steel 16 ga works for you and your gun, don't worry be happy! I'll stick to my expensive but better for me TM 5's ( I have more than a case hoarded away) or the 12 ga. Faststeel #1's for mixed geese and #3's for mallards. Or 2's when everything is flying.
 
Longwalker said:
I like fast steel loads as long as the pattern is also good. I have not had good patterns from the Federal 16 steel loads that I have used, so I was disappointed with them. It's likely a problem with my gun, not the loads themselves.
I shoot a lot of waterfowl each fall, and find the 12g a 2-3/4" loads of #1, 2, or 3 shot in 1-1/16 to 1-1/8 oz all shoot well out of my Win M12 with aftermarket Hastings barrel and a modified choke. The faster shells kill a little better, but not much.
In my Citori 16, the Kent Tungsten Matrix 1-1/16 oz of #5 at about 1300 fps are amazing. The patterns are dense and even. Pellets penetrate even medium sized geese very well. This shell in my 16 ga kills as well as my 12 ga with steel.
So if Federal "slow" steel 16 ga works for you and your gun, don't worry be happy! I'll stick to my expensive but better for me TM 5's ( I have more than a case hoarded away) or the 12 ga. Faststeel #1's for mixed geese and #3's for mallards. Or 2's when everything is flying.
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I'm certainly happy with them out of the Sportsman, less so with my supply of a box and a half :O I had 10 or so TM #5's and the one duck I connected with looked like he hit a brick wall. However, it's just too expensive for me to shoot on a regular basis out of any of my guns.

I was mostly just asking as I'm out of steel for my 12 Gauge except for scattered rounds I've pulled out of my pockets or found in the truck and was researching for next season. Obviously the Kents worked for me last year, I just didn't know if I could get something to work better for me.

Thanks,

Cory
 
up untill this past season i was only using the kent fast steel and taking a risk in my winchester 1400 12ga. friend started reloading shot shells and had me try the itx shot that was safe for my gun which shoots at about 1300fps and it has been the best yet. the only down side was price to buy it in the store its over $50 for 10 shells. we ended up reloading it withnew hulls for 3 bucks a shell.

i personaly would not go back to any store bought shot. i had the best season yet for hunting waterfoul.
 
This past fall has me rethinking steel/vs other non toxic ammo.

I shot amazingly well with my handloaded 16 ga #5 bismuth ........ I'll be using that stuff again next year! (1300fps) WoW

However

The nearly $4.00/round bismuth 12 ga in BB and #2's ....... Honestly my Kent 1300FPS steel factory 1-3/8 loads @ $18.00/box absolutely nailed the geese. I won't be using those expensive bismuth loads again in my 12.

Personally I do not like the 1550FPS + skybusting steel loads...... Poor patterns, hard on this old guy's shoulder.

my 2 cents

Lucky
 
Have you tried Tungsten shot?



LuckyStrike said:
This past fall has me rethinking steel/vs other non toxic ammo.

I shot amazingly well with my handloaded 16 ga #5 bismuth ........ I'll be using that stuff again next year! (1300fps) WoW

However

The nearly $4.00/round bismuth 12 ga in BB and #2's ....... Honestly my Kent 1300FPS steel factory 1-3/8 loads @ $18.00/box absolutely nailed the geese. I won't be using those expensive bismuth loads again in my 12.

Personally I do not like the 1550FPS + skybusting steel loads...... Poor patterns, hard on this old guy's shoulder.

my 2 cents

Lucky
Click to expand...
 
LuckyStrike said:
This past fall has me rethinking steel/vs other non toxic ammo.

I shot amazingly well with my handloaded 16 ga #5 bismuth ........ I'll be using that stuff again next year! (1300fps) WoW

However

The nearly $4.00/round bismuth 12 ga in BB and #2's ....... Honestly my Kent 1300FPS steel factory 1-3/8 loads @ $18.00/box absolutely nailed the geese. I won't be using those expensive bismuth loads again in my 12.

Personally I do not like the 1550FPS + skybusting steel loads...... Poor patterns, hard on this old guy's shoulder.

my 2 cents

Lucky
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Hey Lucky,

I know it all depends on patterns, but how far typically were your shots with that load?

Thanks,

Cory
 
Cory, its all marketing hype! Hyper Speeds, Blind Side, Black Cloud, 3.5" shells in 12ga!
Patterns with even pellet distribution kill, so long as the pellets have sufficient energy to penetrate down range. I wouldn't push 4s past 35 yards because they are lacking in penetration and I won't shoot any size shot past 50 yards because patterns are too thin out there to be consistent killers and my shot placement at that range isn't consistent enough, there'd be too many lost birds. Unless of course you shoot 10 ga and pattern your loads out there and are a helluva shot!
Get a good patterning load and you'll be set.
 
Like the boys say and you know Cory tons of patterning with vaious loads and chokes is the key until you find what your gun likes.
Something else I do which you probally do also is all three shells in my gun are different loads. For example my 1st shot is a no.1 followed by a BB since usually the geese are farther now then finally a BBB. Picked that up from a PEI guide one year and since it has really improved the number of birds taken for me.
 
3macs1 said:
Like the boys say and you know Cory tons of patterning with vaious loads and chokes is the key until you find what your gun likes.
Something else I do which you probally do also is all three shells in my gun are different loads. For example my 1st shot is a no.1 followed by a BB since usually the geese are farther now then finally a BBB. Picked that up from a PEI guide one year and since it has really improved the number of birds taken for me.
Click to expand...

I do know that patterning is important, I was just wondering if people thought (patterns being the same) a slower, heaver load was better than a lighter faster one.

I do something similar. I ran #3's as my first two shots and a #BB as my final shot. I never patterned the #BB load, but I hit some crippled birds on the water at a good 45 yards and bowled geese over.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and opinions. Gives me things to think about.

Cory
 
After watching the Roster video it seems that 1300 fps loads of 2's and BB do the job with no issues to ranges that I would not try. Even the later part of the film where #6 steel at low velocity is working over high mallards makes me have to re think this whole speed kills opinion. The factory 16 gauge load of #4 @ 1340 ps + or- with 15/16 oz should be a resonable killer at 40 to 45 yards. This is where the pattern comes into effect. Thank a greater power that we have Poly Choke's on our 16's and we can work out a load that will pattern well (or best). Can't wait till break up when we can get to the pit for some shooting...

Darryl
 
mathematically there isn't much difference at the range where the duck is getting shot due to the fact steel slows down faster the faster it started. That being said i will keep shooting my sportsman hi speed 1550's because for me switching to them up'd my kills significantly. That could be because i matured as both a hunter and a person ( more than i was anyways) and more importantly as a wingshot. I dont care really to be honest though its a confidence thing to me. Im confident in my abilty to crack that bird at 45-50-55 yards now and that is huge compared to when i was anxious shooting at 30. Your mileage may differ.
 
Interesting thread.

Steel is a different animal than lead and I think it is more dynamic than most people think. Lots of good info raised here, I will add my 2 cents.

You only need 600 fps in an appropriately sized pellet to fatally injure watefowl, three pellets are deemed to be enough to cleanly drop a bird without breaking a wing. So realistically any load with appropriately sized shot will work. Part of the issue with high velocity loads is that they tend to include higher quality components than slower loads.

Delivering the pellets to where they belong is where choke and your skill/talent comes in. New "Full Steel" choke tubes tend to have longer parallel sections gradually increasing constriction, while older guns chokes are more abrupt, I suspect this is why Cory's gun likes the slow stuff.

I think the magic number speed wise is about 1450-1550 anything faster your gains aren't worth the muzzle crack and extra recoil, I don't like being in a blind with someone shooting the 1700 fps loads.

Brister mentions a "square" load where velocity, payload,shotsize and barrel geometry come together to produce even patterns. With the huge variance in steel loads,barrels and chokes it is harder to make a sweeping recommendation.

I tend to prefer the 1 1/4 ounce loads of smaller size for better pattern density at 1550. Larger shotsizes I like more shot a bit slower.

Sorry for the rant I am in class and trying to listen to a lecture on Environmental Fate of a Pollutant.
 
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