Stevens 200's and Flyers

powder burner

powder burner

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Location
Alberta, Canada
Do any of you stevens 200 owners get nice groups but one always seems to be a flyer? For me, its always the first shot that flies off a little and the rest group nice and tight. (Cold Barrel??)

Heres a pic of my stevens 200 in .22-250 with 55grain Vmax's cruising at 3600FPS. This was shot at 200 yards.

DSCF0216.jpg


The following are my stevens 200 in 7mm08 shot at 100 yards. It doesnt seem to matter what loads I use, I always get the same type of grouping. Not a really big deal (these are hunting rifles not benchrest rifles)
DSCF0214.jpg


DSCF0212.jpg



Does the same thing happen to you guys? How are your stevens groups?
 
Are those shots (flyers) right after you cleaned the barrel? Most of my guns will have the first shot slightly away from the rest of the group (not a Stevens) until the barrel is fouled slightly.
 
I have not cleaned them in awhile, but these groupings have happened from day one in both rifles. (clean or after some use)

Once again Im not too concerned about it because both rifles have taken critters, therefore they can put meat on the table. (not so much the .22-250,as I dont like eating coyote or gophers:puke: lol )

I just want to know if others have experienced this with their steven's
 
Those are significant flyers!

What kind of time between shots?

I would look seriously at the bag and rifle supports to ensure your supports are consistently the same. I.E. forend stud position relative the front bag as well as the rear stud relative the rear bag... etc...

If bedding is good (screws snug tight) and mounts are tight, I'd look long and hard at technique....

Joe
 
What you are seeing is the result of the rifle being pillar bedded, but not glass bedded. The action sits on the pillars, but can still move slightly from side to side. It doesn't take much, just a few thousandths of an inch to produce what you are experiencing.

After the first shot, the recoil sort of settles the barrelled action in the stock. The next two or three shots do the same, so you get the first shot out of the group.

Just bed the receiver ring and recoil lug area, and a small pad under the rear tang, and watch this problem go away. :)

Ted
 
Last edited:
### International said:
Those are significant flyers!

What kind of time between shots?

I would look seriously at the bag and rifle supports to ensure your supports are consistently the same. I.E. forend stud position relative the front bag as well as the rear stud relative the rear bag... etc...

If bedding is good (screws snug tight) and mounts are tight, I'd look long and hard at technique....

Joe
Click to expand...

When testing new rounds I usually just shoot with the quad as a rest. (100yards at the parents place) However, when using the benchrest at the range, the same thing happens. With that said, I dropped my buck this year at 200 yards in the standing position. Im not too worried about that aspect of it.

Maybe I just need a bigger quad?? That should solve the problem right???

Anyhoo, Whynot, that sounds like just the ticket. I will have to pick up some bedding compound. Another project for Blackdog....

Also, the .22-250 is in the tupperware stock and the 7-08 is in my boydds pepper laminate.(see picture in sig line below)
 
Last edited:
I agree with Why Not's diagnosis. In addition, if you look at the pillars, they are flat at the top where the "round" bottom of the receiver comes into contact. You'll probably see a shiny spot on top of the pillars which is evidence of this shifting. Bedding will clear up this problem. Are you having this problem with a tupperware stock or that laminates stock on your 7-08?
I am currentlly working on my Boyd's stock. Although you don't really need pillars with a laminate stok, I am making some with a radiused top to match the receiver profile. I will acragel after pillar mounting.

Why Not, what type of pad and how thick do you put under the tang? I plan on leaving a 20 to 30 thou gap under the tang.
 
Last edited:
I have a Stevens in .223 and the first groups I fired had fliers. I bedded the action and now my $350 Stevens shoots almost as good as my $1700 Sako.
 
:D
powder burner said:
Also, the .22-250 is in the tupperware stock and the 7-08 is in my boydds pepper laminate.(see picture in sig line below)
Click to expand...



So which of these are pillar bedded? I have yet to see this kind of problem on a pillar bedded rifle....but then maybe I should be saying properly bedded in a proper stock...:D

BTW what happens when you shot 5 or 6 shot groups?
 
Bedding is your number one problem. Both stocks come with very generous inletting - catch phrase is drop in inletting = not so good inletting..

Pay attention to the recoil lug and ensure that it is bedded on the sides and as much of the front as possible.

Try and keep that action as level/stress free as possible when bedding. You do not want to bend the action. In many cases, the rear pillar is a bit too low.

I focus on having the action down so that it touches the front pillar and level between the rear and tang. One of the other will touch for your two point contact. The bedding will fill in the gaps and you will have a stable level base.

You have done the bedding right when the action, just put into the stock, cannot move in the stock in any direction even with some pretty vigorous tugging. It should feel like it is bolted together.

Action screws only need to be hand tight and will go from loose to full tight in 1/2 turn. Anytime you feel the screw get tighter and tighter over 1 to 2 turns, you are crushing the stock and/or bending the action.

Any action properly bedded w/pillars never needs to be 'torqued' down.

The fliers will dissappear and groups will shrink.

If shooting in very cold weather, that barrel may change harmonics as it rapidly heats up. so if the fliers go away but you intend on hunting in -5C or colder weather, test your cold barrel shot in these temps and see if it is off.

Some barrels change POI in the cold, others don't.
Jerry

Heed the advice on getting a Remington rifle to eliminate fliers. It is definitely one way to solve the problem.

Shoot a rifle that groups so big and wild that you will never know you have fliers. That's the way all the groups look.:runaway: :runaway: ;)
 
Last edited:
If shooting in very cold weather, that barrel may change harmonics as it rapidly heats up. so if the fliers go away but you intend on hunting in -5C or colder weather, test your cold barrel shot in these temps and see if it is off.
Click to expand...
Could you please explain, what are harmonics?

Pay attention to the recoil lug and ensure that it is bedded on the sides and as much of the front as possible.
Click to expand...
Do you not want some clearance between the sides and front of the recoil lug, to ease removal. Is the bedding wall so to speak not positioned "behind" the recoil lug, where recoil impact occurs?
 
Last edited:
A barrel acts very much like a tuning fork. It resonates as the gun fires. The more consistent the 'note', the better the accuracy (gross simplification but you get the point).

When steel gets cold, the qualities of the metal changes. This can have an affect on how the vibrations 'sound' when the gun fires (barrel vs load become out of tune). This inturn causes the shot to stray from its intended path.

Just the reverse of when a barrel gets too hot and starts to string.

Proper bedding is about letting that rifle shoot its best, not for the occasional action removal. Too many smiths worry about how easy it will be for them to finish the job and not doing the best possible job.

A fully bedded lug will be a bit more difficult to remove, but it results in greatly increased consistency. You are trying to provide a glove fit between the action and stock. The recoil lug is what handles ALL of the recoil forces. Why create a sloppy fit? If that were the case, why bed at all? Just crank on 65 in/lbs of torque and fly at it.

It only takes a few thou of change/variation to affect your accuracy. A piece of tape on either side of a recoil lug is more then a few thou.

Remember that a rifle also torques during recoil meaning that the lug does almost nothing to control the roll of that action if the sides are unsupported.

I like to get some material in front of the lug so that any bounce is eliminated. This is especially important if you are using a muzzle brake and now have back and forth recoil forces to deal with.

The action screws are not supposed to be load bearing. Anything that puts a lateral or vertical load on these screws must be avoided for max accuracy over the longest period of time.

Hope this answers your questions.

Jerry
 
There is almost always an oversimplification by those who do not understand the forces involved.

The action screws receive loading from the whipping of the barrel during firing and gravity.

Also, the clamping force of the screws provides friction which resists rotation.
 
this is my LTR before it was bedded at 100meters
IMG_3129.jpg



I was happy...but it was time to get the trigger down to 1.75lbs;) and bed it so after a long time working on it I put her all back together,tightened the action down to 65"lbs I loaded up some more ammo and off I went again this time I fired three shots to confirm zero then I shot a 4 shot group...(I know I only had four rds left,I am still trying to find it magic load:D ) here is the pick of that group
IMG_3128.jpg


Jamie
 
### International said:
:D



So which of these are pillar bedded? I have yet to see this kind of problem on a pillar bedded rifle....but then maybe I should be saying properly bedded in a proper stock...:D

BTW what happens when you shot 5 or 6 shot groups?
Click to expand...


They get a tight grouping and cost less than one of bartells purty remingtons. After the first one they group like everyone elses stevens.:D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom