Storage of Reloading Materials

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dsly

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Okay...I've read all various threads, some of which are more informed than others, I've gone through the Explosives Act, and now I want to see if I have this right.

Ammunition must be stored locked up in a clean container with a tight-fitting lid, marked "Ammunition", away from anything flammable. (Explosives Act, s. 130)
Powder must be stored separately from ammunition in a "receptacle" according to s. 137:
137. In regard to any receptacle, the following provisions shall be observed:

(a) it shall be provided with a closely fitting lid secured by a lock, and hinges and fastenings, preferably of copper or brass, and otherwise closed and secured so as to prevent unauthorized persons having access thereto, and shall be kept locked except when required to be open for receipt or removal of explosives, or other necessary purpose;

(b) it shall be exclusively used for the keeping of explosives;

(c) it shall be made of wood, copper or other suitable material;

(d) the interior of the receptacle and all fittings therein shall be so constructed, covered or lined as to prevent the exposure of any iron or steel, or of any hard or gritty surface, or the entry, detaching, or accumulating of grit, iron, steel or similar substance;

(e) the interior of the receptacle shall be kept scrupulously clean; and

(f) the receptacle shall have the word “EXPLOSIVES” conspicuously displayed thereon on a contrasting background.

Primers are classed in Division 3, Class 6, (S. 13(8)) because they "contain their own means of ignition" and must be stored separately from either ammunition or powder, in the same type of container as powder. (s. 137).

Okay....have at it guys. Would especially like a comment from Mouthpiece if he has the inclination.
*********************************************************
Please, Lord, save us from the bureaucrats, as they know not what they do.
 
Not sure what I am supposed to be doing but here is what i do:
Powder is on the top shelf of the loading bench - powder still in original containers (steel cans)
Primers on bottom shelf of same bench - stored in original cardboard/plastic containers
Ammunition is in a locked filing cabinet, directly across room from said bench.
Door to room is locked.

Usually there are small quantity exemptions for said storage. Generally the regulation defines what is exempted, where the regulation applies, what "storage" means, etc. I don't think anyone keeps their reloading bench as described in the reg's
 
From the explosive regulations:

131. Subject to any provincial law or regulation or any municipal by-law, a person may, if he takes reasonable precautions against accidents, keep in his possession on his premises, for private use and not for sale,

(a) a quantity of Division 2 of Class 7 fireworks, not exceeding 10 kilograms gross weight, that were soldto him in accordance with these Regulations;

(b) such quantity of safety cartridges as he may reasonably require for a rifle, revolver or shotgun that he may lawfully possess and use; and

(c) any quantity of Christmas crackers and caps for toy guns.

143. A person may have up to 75 kilograms of gunpowder and small arms propellant in his possession if they are stored in accordance with Part XII.

EXPLOSIVES THAT MAY BE IMPORTED WITHOUT AN
EXPLOSIVES IMPORTATION PERMIT
Column I Column II
Item Explosive Quantity
1. safety cartridges except hollow point handgun ammunition 5,000
2. percussion caps (primers) for safety cartridges 5,000
3. empty primed cartridge cases 5,000
4. gunpowder (black powder) in canisters of 500 g or less and
smokeless powder in canisters of 4 000 g or less 8 kg
5. model rocket engines 6

This is why it is important to read what is exempted and what isn't
 
One must read ALL the sections of the Act

Bigbubba said:
From the explosive regulations:

131. Subject to any provincial law or regulation or any municipal by-law, a person may, if he takes reasonable precautions against accidents, keep in his possession on his premises, for private use and not for sale,

(a) a quantity of Division 2 of Class 7 fireworks, not exceeding 10 kilograms gross weight, that were soldto him in accordance with these Regulations;

(b) such quantity of safety cartridges as he may reasonably require for a rifle, revolver or shotgun that he may lawfully possess and use; and

(c) any quantity of Christmas crackers and caps for toy guns.

143. A person may have up to 75 kilograms of gunpowder and small arms propellant in his possession if they are stored in accordance with Part XII.

EXPLOSIVES THAT MAY BE IMPORTED WITHOUT AN
EXPLOSIVES IMPORTATION PERMIT
Column I Column II
Item Explosive Quantity
1. safety cartridges except hollow point handgun ammunition 5,000
2. percussion caps (primers) for safety cartridges 5,000
3. empty primed cartridge cases 5,000
4. gunpowder (black powder) in canisters of 500 g or less and
smokeless powder in canisters of 4 000 g or less 8 kg
5. model rocket engines 6

This is why it is important to read what is exempted and what isn't
Click to expand...

What you say is true, but you have referred only to PART of the law. S. 131 merely says you can keep a reasonable quantity of safety cartridges if you take reasonable precautions against accidents. What you have not referenced is PART XI, which is "STORAGE AND HANDLING OF AMMUNITION AND FIREWORKS", which states ammunition must be locked and labeled. S. 131 is not an exemption from PART XI, s. 130.
The second part you quote refers to "Importation without a permit" which is not the subject of this discussion, which is STORAGE of an explosive, namely a Class 1 explosive under s. 6 (gunpowder). You do correctly state they must be stored in accordance with the rules under PART XII "AMOUNT OF AUTHORIZED EXPLOSIVE THAT MAY BE KEPT FOR USE AND NOT FOR SALE IN PLACES OTHER THAN LICENSED FACTORIES AND LICENSED MAGAZINES AND REGISTERED PREMISES AND THE MANNER IN WHICH IT SHALL BE HANDLED AND STORED, which means in our houses. S. 136 and 137 clearly outline the requirements of the box, and how it must be stored.
I stand by my original post. It is necessary to read ALL the sections that apply; the ones you quote are not exclusionary.
 
Powder Storage

Hi,
Does this mean I can keep them in the same box a long as there is a divider between the two??

>Primers are classed in Division 3, Class 6, (S. 13(8)) because they "contain >their own means of ignition" and must be stored separately from either >ammunition or powder, in the same type of container as powder. (s. 137).
 
rshew said:
Hi,
Does this mean I can keep them in the same box a long as there is a divider between the two??

>Primers are classed in Division 3, Class 6, (S. 13(8)) because they "contain >their own means of ignition" and must be stored separately from either >ammunition or powder, in the same type of container as powder. (s. 137).
Click to expand...

I'm not a lawyer, but I guess it depends on how you define 'separately'. I know of people who have built the wooden box as per the regs, that has a 3/4" plywood divider on the inside. They keep powder on one side, the primers on the second side. As long as the divider provides a tight seal, I would argue that this is 'separate'. Guess it would depend on whether the authorities and the judge would agree.
 
dsly said:
Okay...I've read all various threads, some of which are more informed than others, I've gone through the Explosives Act, and now I want to see if I have this right.

Ammunition must be stored locked up in a clean container with a tight-fitting lid, marked "Ammunition", away from anything flammable. (Explosives Act, s. 130)
Click to expand...

Where did you find this section?

I looked it up in the Explosives Act linked from Natural Resources Canada (http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/E-17/FullText.html) and there are only about 50 sections, none worded like the quote.

edit: found it.
Now, is one's house a warehouse or store? Can it be construed as such?
 
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House is not a store or warehouse

legi0n said:
Where did you find this section?

edit: found it.
Now, is one's house a warehouse or store? Can it be construed as such?
Click to expand...

I don't think so, as the legislation clearly has different rules for warehouses stores and "other places" (namely your house). Given the strict rules and licences needed for stores, I don't think you want to make that argument, and I doubt you could convince anyone a house is a warehouse.
Just my opinion...I could be wrong.
 
Yeah I'm confused too.

I have my ammo in one locked box, primers in another locked box and powder locked seperately. I have a seperate key chain for all this :)

I have 4 pounds of powder tops. I may need to mark them better.


I'll read my big book later and see if it is any help!
 
rshew said:
>Primers are classed in Division 3, Class 6, (S. 13(8)) because they "contain >their own means of ignition" and must be stored separately from either >ammunition or powder, in the same type of container as powder. (s. 137).
Click to expand...

Are you certain? See s.13(6) of the regs which seems to describe primers while s.13(8) refers to ammunition with its own source of ignition other than those in Division 1:

13(6) Division 1 comprises the following:
(a) safety cartridges;
(b) safety fuses; and
(c) percussion caps if the cap
(i) is a metal case or capsule,
(ii) has its composition protected by tin-foil or other suitable substance,
(iii) contains less than 40 milligrams of a composition of Division 1 of Class 5 (fulminate), of which not more than 25 per cent consists of fulminate of mercury or less than 35 milligrams of any other explosive of Division 1 of Class 5 (fulminate), and
(iv) is of such strength and construction that the ignition of one such cap will not ignite other like caps.

13(8) Division 3 comprises any ammunition that contains its own means of ignition, and is not included in Division 1, such as detonators, percussion caps not included in Division 1, friction tubes, percussion primers, fuses for shell (such as time and percussion fuses) if such fuses do contain their own means of ignition.

Bigbubba said:
143. A person may have up to 75 kilograms of gunpowder and small arms propellant in his possession if they are stored in accordance with Part XII.
Click to expand...

Perhaps read PART XII, the very first section of this part reads:
132. This Part does not apply to premises used for the keeping of explosives of Division 1 of Class 6 (ammunition) or of Division 2 of Class 7 (fireworks).

Thus back to PART XI...

S.140(2) suggests 10KG powder is the max:
140(2) Subject to subsection (3), the quantity of authorized explosives that may be kept in a suitable receptacle shall not
(a) in the case of explosives of Classes 1, 2, 3 and 4, exceed 10 kg in the aggregate, of which not more than 5 kg shall be blasting cartridges; and them; and

S.141 addresses the stored separately issue:
141. When two or more explosives are kept on the same premises they shall each be kept in separate stores or receptacles, so separated from one another as to effectually prevent fire or explosion in one explosive from communicating with the other, except that
(a) the various explosives of Class 1 (gunpowder), Class 2 (nitrate mixture), Class 3 (nitro-compound), Class 4 (chlorate-mixture), safety fuse belonging to Division 1 of Class 6 (ammunition), and such of the various explosives of Division 2 of Class 6 (ammunition) as do not contain any exposed iron or steel, may be kept in the same store or receptacle with each other without any intervening partition or space;
(b) the various explosives of Division 1 of Class 6 (ammunition) may be kept in the same store or receptacle with each other without any intervening partition or space;
---

Think a plastic tool box does it - nothing to spark, smooth surface / easily kept clean, easily moved... as per S.130
 
Yes and no....

lineofsight said:
Are you certain? See s.13(6) of the regs which seems to describe primers while s.13(8) refers to ammunition with its own source of ignition other than those in Division 1:

13(6) Division 1 comprises the following:
(a) safety cartridges;
(b) safety fuses; and
(c) percussion caps if the cap
(i) is a metal case or capsule,
(ii) has its composition protected by tin-foil or other suitable substance,
(iii) contains less than 40 milligrams of a composition of Division 1 of Class 5 (fulminate), of which not more than 25 per cent consists of fulminate of mercury or less than 35 milligrams of any other explosive of Division 1 of Class 5 (fulminate), and
(iv) is of such strength and construction that the ignition of one such cap will not ignite other like caps.

13(8) Division 3 comprises any ammunition that contains its own means of ignition, and is not included in Division 1, such as detonators, percussion caps not included in Division 1, friction tubes, percussion primers, fuses for shell (such as time and percussion fuses) if such fuses do contain their own means of ignition.



Perhaps read PART XII, the very first section of this part reads:
132. This Part does not apply to premises used for the keeping of explosives of Division 1 of Class 6 (ammunition) or of Division 2 of Class 7 (fireworks).

Thus back to PART XI...

S.140(2) suggests 10KG powder is the max:
140(2) Subject to subsection (3), the quantity of authorized explosives that may be kept in a suitable receptacle shall not
(a) in the case of explosives of Classes 1, 2, 3 and 4, exceed 10 kg in the aggregate, of which not more than 5 kg shall be blasting cartridges; and them; and

S.141 addresses the stored separately issue:
141. When two or more explosives are kept on the same premises they shall each be kept in separate stores or receptacles, so separated from one another as to effectually prevent fire or explosion in one explosive from communicating with the other, except that
(a) the various explosives of Class 1 (gunpowder), Class 2 (nitrate mixture), Class 3 (nitro-compound), Class 4 (chlorate-mixture), safety fuse belonging to Division 1 of Class 6 (ammunition), and such of the various explosives of Division 2 of Class 6 (ammunition) as do not contain any exposed iron or steel, may be kept in the same store or receptacle with each other without any intervening partition or space;
(b) the various explosives of Division 1 of Class 6 (ammunition) may be kept in the same store or receptacle with each other without any intervening partition or space;
---

Think a plastic tool box does it - nothing to spark, smooth surface / easily kept clean, easily moved... as per S.130
Click to expand...

No, I'm not sure, which is why we need this discussion.

1. I don't think primers are 'percussion caps', which as I understand it, are what muzzleloaders use to set off their main charge. A percussion cap must also have "its composition protected by tin-foil or other suitable substance" (s. 13(6)(c)). When I look at rifle primers, I can see the explosive material from the back under the anvil. I think they are more properly described as 'percussion primers", which makes them Division 3 of the Ammunition Class 6.

You will note s. 141 does not include Class 6 Division 3, which means powder and primers cannot be stored together unless "so separated from one another as to effectually prevent fire or explosion in one explosive from communicating with the other...". I'd argue a box built as per. s. 137, with a partition that seals well between primers and powder would meet the requirements. Having said that, a judge could read "separate stores or receptacles" as being two different containers.

I don't think the exemption under Part XII applies, as it refers to 'safety cartridges, safety fuses, and percussion caps, but it does not refer to Class 6 Division 3, so Part XII does apply. Perhaps a plastic toolbox with no steel or iron fittings, or iron or steel exposed on the inside (mine has plastic hinges), and a brass lock would qualify, as long as there was a good sealed partition between primers and powder.

So my position would be:
1. ammo must be stored separately and locked and not stored with anything else. (s. 130(b)).
2. various types of powder may be stored together, along with those things listed in s. 130(a) (which does NOT include primers).
3. primers may be stored together (Class 6 Division 3) (s. 141(d)).
4. A box that meets the requirements of s. 137 may be used to store powder and primers, as long as they are separated in a manner "to effectually prevent fire or explosion....from communicating with the other" (s. 141).

Isn't law fun?!
As for putting EXPLOSIVES in large contrasting letters on the box, I can't think of a more stupid thing to do. If someone breaks in, what would be the first thing they would steal?
 
dsly said:
I don't think so, as the legislation clearly has different rules for warehouses stores and "other places" (namely your house). Given the strict rules and licences needed for stores, I don't think you want to make that argument, and I doubt you could convince anyone a house is a warehouse.
Just my opinion...I could be wrong.
Click to expand...

I asked because section 125 of the Explosives Regulations states:
125. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the quantity of explosives of Division 2 of Class 7 (manufactured fireworks) and of Division 1 of Class 6 (ammunition) that a person may have in his possession if kept in any store or warehouse shall not exceed,
.....
(b) in a container
....
(iii) 225 kilograms of explosives contained in ammunition of Division 1 of Class 6.

Furthermore, section 130 defines the hows and whats for a container including the requirement to be locked.

Now, if one's home is not a store or warehouse, sections 125 through 130 don't apply and the only regulation is section 131 (which does not require ammo and firecrackers to be locked):

131. Subject to any provincial law or regulation or any municipal by-law, a person may, if he takes reasonable precautions against accidents, keep in his possession on his premises, for private use and not for sale,

(a) a quantity of Division 2 of Class 7 fireworks, not exceeding 10 kilograms gross weight, that were sold to him in accordance with these Regulations;

(b) such quantity of safety cartridges as he may reasonably require for a rifle, revolver or shotgun that he may lawfully possess and use; and

(c) any quantity of Christmas crackers and caps for toy guns.
 
Yes and no again....

legi0n said:
I asked because section 125 of the Explosives Regulations states:
125. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the quantity of explosives of Division 2 of Class 7 (manufactured fireworks) and of Division 1 of Class 6 (ammunition) that a person may have in his possession if kept in any store or warehouse shall not exceed,
.....
(b) in a container
....
(iii) 225 kilograms of explosives contained in ammunition of Division 1 of Class 6.

Furthermore, section 130 defines the hows and whats for a container including the requirement to be locked.

Now, if one's home is not a store or warehouse, sections 125 through 130 don't apply and the only regulation is section 131 (which does not require ammo and firecrackers to be locked):

131. Subject to any provincial law or regulation or any municipal by-law, a person may, if he takes reasonable precautions against accidents, keep in his possession on his premises, for private use and not for sale,

(a) a quantity of Division 2 of Class 7 fireworks, not exceeding 10 kilograms gross weight, that were sold to him in accordance with these Regulations;

(b) such quantity of safety cartridges as he may reasonably require for a rifle, revolver or shotgun that he may lawfully possess and use; and

(c) any quantity of Christmas crackers and caps for toy guns.
Click to expand...

I would agree that in Part XII, s. 131 would appear to be the only section dealing with ammo storage in houses by private individuals (ie. not selling).

The problem here is that we are dealing with both the Firearms Act and Regulations, as well as the Explosives Act.
From the Firearms Act Regulations, defining "safe storage" under (SOR/98-209) says:
"5. (1) An individual may store a non-restricted firearm only if

(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into."
This would suggest that ammo can be kept locked with firearms in a gun safe, or kept separately locked in a container, in order to be considered 'safe storage'.

Section 131 says "reasonable precautions must be taken against accidents".
To me this suggests that a reasonable precaution would be locking it up as required by the Firearms Regulations, even if kept separate from firearms.
The Firearms Act Regs refer to a 'container', but does not define it, and s. 130 of the Explosives Act says "in regard to any container" and then does define it. I would suggest that these two sections together require that ammo be locked.
I keep some ammo in my gun safe with my firearms, and some in a government high-security file cabinet made of high grade steel, that locks all drawers with a 1/4" steel hasp and a padlock.
BTW, I did come across this article. See what you think.
http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/legal_storage_and_transport.html
 
this how I store mine;;

P1000078.jpg

P1000077.jpg

P1000076.jpg
 
Dsly, may I put RCMP's interpretation of the same laws against yours?

Your firearms must be stored unloaded.
Your firearms must also be locked up or made unable to be fired unless you are in a remote wilderness area where hunting is allowed.You must either:
• use a secure locking device such as a cable lock or trigger lock,
• remove the bolt or bolt carrier, or
• lock your firearms in a secure container, cabinet or room that cannot easily be broken into. If the firearms are locked in a secure container, cabinet or room, the ammunition can be stored with them. Otherwise, the ammunition must be kept separate.
Click to expand...

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/safe_sur/pdfs/saf-sur-eng.pdf

That's it, ammo must just be kept separate from the firearms except if locked together with the firearms.

I admit I already knew that, my previous questions and quotes of the law were only meant to provide the legal foundation of it to myself and others.

edit: has anyone noticed that there's no OR between (i) and the (ii)

5. (1) An individual may store a non-restricted firearm only if
(a) it is unloaded;
(b) it is
(i) rendered inoperable by means of a secure locking device,
(ii) rendered inoperable by the removal of the bolt or bolt-carrier, or
(iii) stored in a container, receptacle or room that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into; and
Click to expand...
 
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safe storage

legi0n said:
Dsly, may I put RCMP's interpretation of the same laws against yours?
Click to expand...

Rule of life....never rely on the police for legal advice. :)
But what about :
From the Firearms Act Regulations, defining "safe storage" under (SOR/98-209) says:
"5. (1) An individual may store a non-restricted firearm only if

(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into."

I don't see how you can read this any other way, but as they say, I could be wrong.
Have a good one!
d.
 
I have a bunch of Plano brand tool box's from Home Depot, They are all plastic, plenty strong enough to be filled with powder or primers. Only metal on them is the lock on the front. I get 4x4 stickers with the appropriate label 1.4c I believe and have them stuck on the top of the toolbox's just in front of the handle.

I keep some in a storage room in the basement and some on the bottom shelf of my workbench in the garage depending on what I am reloading and how lazy I have been to take them back downstairs.

For $16 each, it's a cheap and easy way to store the stuff properly and it's manageable as they stack well and aren't too bulky/heavy to move around.
 
dsly said:
Rule of life....never rely on the police for legal advice. :)
But what about :
From the Firearms Act Regulations, defining "safe storage" under (SOR/98-209) says:
"5. (1) An individual may store a non-restricted firearm only if

(c) it is not readily accessible to ammunition, unless the ammunition is stored, together with or separately from the firearm, in a container or receptacle that is kept securely locked and that is constructed so that it cannot readily be broken open or into."

I don't see how you can read this any other way, but as they say, I could be wrong.
Have a good one!
d.
Click to expand...
you can interpret this in another way because of the key words "readily accessible" and UNLESS
- so, you can only store a firearm with readily accessible ammunition if both are locked up. If the ammo is not "readily accessible" to the firearm you do not need to lock up the ammo. I lock up my guns but never my ammo.
 
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