Strange Bullet Behaviour

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pathfinder76

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My youngest son shot a bear Thursday evening. He was using his Kimber Montana 308 shooting 150gr Hornady Interlocks. He shot it at around 40 yards. The shot was taken on the same basic plane as the bear. The entrance side was the bears right side and the exit the left.

Here is where it gets weird. He had two holes in him. An entrance and an exit. But I recovered the bullet from the off side. The bullet jacket. What was left of the lead core must have gone through?

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Interesting. I haven’t shot much game with cup and core bullets for 25 years. But I don’t know that I’ve ever seen that before.
 
I had a 12 ga slug that actually sliced the skin on the off side. I thought the slug had went through. While skinning I found the slug under the hide. So enough force to break the skin but not enough to exit.
I shot a buck in back of the head that flipped over on the spot. Core went through his head and found the jacket impeded in the bone under the skin. 140 gr Hornady 6.5 Swed about 30 ft from the muzzle. Bullet came apart but did its job.
Some people would call it bullet failure but I don’t. Animal down with one shot.
 
Fairly common with cup and core bullets. The interlock ring is supposed to mitigate that happening, but if the bullet meets to much resistance or it "too fast" impact velocity, the cup can seperate from the core. I have had it happen alot more on hornady's newer eld-x bullet. They have the interlock ring further forward and the bullet breaks apart at pretty modest velocities. Once you get out further, or don't drive the bullet as fast the work exactly like they are supposed to. That's why for larger game I almost always use a bonded, or partition bullet.
 
The heavier 30 cal ballistic tips (and others made this way) flip this phenomenon around.

2/3 of the weigh is copper so the copper jacket often penetrates deeper than the lead core does.

Course once core and jacket separate it depends on mass, frontal area of each, etc. But jacket there, core gone has happens

Denver Steve said:
Fairly common with cup and core bullets. The interlock ring is supposed to mitigate that happening, but if the bullet meets to much resistance or it "too fast" impact velocity, the cup can seperate from the core. I have had it happen alot more on hornady's newer eld-x bullet. They have the interlock ring further forward and the bullet breaks apart at pretty modest velocities. Once you get out further, or don't drive the bullet as fast the work exactly like they are supposed to. That's why for larger game I almost always use a bonded, or partition bullet.
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That whole "works close range AND long range" thing is such a game of compromise eh? might as well shoot ELD-M as ELD-X as the lock ring is largely symbolic unless you're really reaching out there.
 
With the ballistic tips that is true. The noslers are definitely beefed up usually as the weight increases. Especially the 180 grain 30 caliber bullet, it has a very thick wall, and a massive shank. Hornady bullets don't seem to increase like the noslers do. I have used the 220 eld-x with it completely blowing up as well. I use both eld-m and eld-x in the hornady lineup. Basically whatever shoots best in each rifle, and what is available at "decent" prices these days. For deer I have no problem using any match or hunting bullet, with larger cartridges larger than 6mm. Anything larger than deer, I tend to stick with a bonded or partition bullet, almost every time. I have started to throw a few Barnes bullets into the mix as well.
 
Denver Steve said:
With the ballistic tips that is true. The noslers are definitely beefed up usually as the weight increases. Especially the 180 grain 30 caliber bullet, it has a very thick wall, and a massive shank. Hornady bullets don't seem to increase like the noslers do. I have used the 220 eld-x with it completely blowing up as well. I use both eld-m and eld-x in the hornady lineup. Basically whatever shoots best in each rifle, and what is available at "decent" prices these days. For deer I have no problem using any match or hunting bullet, with larger cartridges larger than 6mm. Anything larger than deer, I tend to stick with a bonded or partition bullet, almost every time. I have started to throw a few Barnes bullets into the mix as well.
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That 180 Ballistic Tip in 30 cal was just what i had in mind while typing that :)

Hear you on all of the above...gone to almost exclusively Barnes/Hornady CX here but were monos somehow not an option, right there with you. Preferably Trophy Bonded Tip or Terminal Ascent
 
I haven't tried the terminal ascent bullet, heard nothing but good things about them. But I almost primarily reload everything, and they are impossible to find as a component anymore, they alwhwre available not long after they came out, but I didn't buy any. I have bought a pile of Barnes to use in my 7wsm, 338rcm, and 375 Ruger. But haven't shot any game with them. I didn't really like the Barnes ttsx performance in the old lady's 243. But I think they will really shine in the larger calibers, really punching big holes when the petals expand. The 235 grain in my 375 is going to be an awesome round. I also loaded a ton of the 120 tac-tx in my 300rum and 300wsm. They are a scary bullet. Designed for the 300 blackout. Expand down to 1300fps, and I have them trucking at 4050fps. Going to be lights out on anything it hits, and are an absolute laser beam. Maximum point blank range is 400 yards. And only 12 inches of drop if it needs to be extended out to 500 yards.
 
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Those must really come apart when you catch a hold of something, the petals at least!

Been using them in their intended "made for" roles, 300 Blackout, 7.62x39mm etc and very impressed. The regular blue tip TTSX in 110 grain does well in the bigger 30 cals too...but not as forgiving at the slower speeds.
 
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I didn't really like the hornady gmx performance either, and I couldn't ever get them to group as nice as a lead core bullet, in any of the rifles I tried them in. Tried many powders, and everything from bullet jammed, to an extreme bullet jump. But never could get extremely good accuracy with them.
 
Fair enough!

The CX I'm referring to is their 110gr CX for the Blackout. Don't really have any experience with the others.
 
I have only tried the 120 gmx in two different 6.5 creedmoors. And the 250 grain CX in the 375 Ruger. Didn't have good results in either. The Ruger loves the 235 grain tsx bullet, and I bought a bunch of the 270 grain lrx bullets. I hope it also likes them, because they are going to be perfect in that cartridge. It also likes the 350 grain woodleigh round nose, but those are not available again for awhile. And a bit heavy for most game. Work amazing on Bison though.
 
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I’m torn on bullet construction quite often but have used mostly “premium” bullets for the last 25 years. I will still lean that way. My daughter shot her bear with the same rifle and bullet a week ago and here it is. About the same performance on similar placement.

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Bears are tough game. The bullets didn't "fail" exactly. It killed the animal and served it purpose. I just think on bears especially, it's nice to have a good entrance and exit wound. The skin of the bear moves around alot and the hide is also very thick, which doesn't leave very nice blood trails, if any sometimes with a smaller caliber. Even though they can be taken and killed cleanly with small calibers, and even "sub par" bullets. A good expanding bullet with a larger diamer, that stays together and drives right through the bear, is always the best choice. As they don't always drop, and those damn buggers are so good at crawling in and hiding somewhere after they are shot.
Interlocks work perfectly fine if you are shooting "heavy for caliber" bullets. Like if you had the old 220 grain round nose interlock in a 30-06, which is actually a bit heavy for most black bear, as it doesn't expand to its full potential, and drives right through them.
 
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Hornady was my bullet of choice for hunting coyotes, deer, antelope and moose and superb accuracy for 50 years... in 280 Improved and 7mm 08. Typically no exit on larger animals with a quick kill - all the energy in the animal. 139's and 154's were the weights I used. Lots of 1/2 inch groups with both...

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Denver Steve said:
Bears are tough game. The bullets didn't "fail" exactly. It killed the animal and served it purpose. I just think on bears especially, it's nice to have a good entrance and exit wound. The skin of the bear moves around alot and the hide is also very thick, which doesn't leave very nice blood trails, if any sometimes with a smaller caliber. Even though they can be taken and killed cleanly with small calibers, and even "sub par" bullets. A good expanding bullet with a larger diamer, that stays together and drives right through the bear, is always the best choice. As they don't always drop, and those damn buggers are so good at crawling in and hiding somewhere after they are shot.
Interlocks work perfectly fine if you are shooting "heavy for caliber" bullets. Like if you had the old 220 grain round nose interlock in a 30-06, which is actually a bit heavy for most black bear, as it doesn't expand to its full potential, and drives right through them.
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The heaiver 30 cal round nose core lokts must be pretty sweet for that sort of thing too?
 
On larger game I prefer the bullet to go all the way through. Entrance and exit. Especially on something like a bear, because they are almost impossible the track in the grass and leaves with little, to no blood trail, that you get without a through and through.
That 7mm bullet performed very well. The lead is definitely not attached to the jacket though, like a bonded bullet would be. If that bullet was driven faster, or tumbled inside the animal that core will definitely seperate. Basically perfect performance at the impact velocity you had.
 
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