Subsonic .223 with Titegroup

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dirtybarry

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So I kept seeing this weird load on Hodgdon's site that calls for 3.1 grains of Titegroup under a 55 grain FMJBT for the .223 Remington and finally worked up the nerve to try it out.

No, it probably won't cycle an AR but in a bolt gun it's a hoot! It literally sounds and performs like a .22LR at 25m. Slight bit of drop (3/8"ish) compared to 24.0 grains of Benchmark and the same bullet at that distance.

All in all, it's a fun round for giggles and I'll definitely load some more. Maybe a few with another grain or two just to find the sonic limit.
 
Evanguy said:
I love tite group for light loads. There is a 8gr load listed for the 308 that I use in 303br cases with any gr cast bullets.
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Interesting...might have to try some some .308 now. Also this has got me thinking about trying .22 Hornet level loads since I have a bunch of 4227 powder.
 
The extreme thing would be to take the longest bullet you can fit in your magazine (say a 75gr bthp Hornady or a 80gr ELDM Hornady), with just the right amount of powder to stay subsonic. Then stretch it out and try to determine if it is stabilizing the bullet.
 
3.1grs Titegroup is 15% load density

6.2grs would be 24k psi / 1823 fps

9.3grs would be 43k psi / 2240 fps

12.4grs would be 67k psi / 2590 fps (58% load density)

15.5grs would be 95k psi / 2900 fps (72% LD)

18.6grs would be 131k psi / 3174 fps (87% LD)

21.7grs would be 178k psi / 3440 fps (101% LD)

I'm always leary of loads that will take multiple charges and still fit in the case. A guy could think he had H335 in the powder hopper and start charging cases with 23grs Titegroup
 
todbartell said:
3.1grs Titegroup is 15% load density

6.2grs would be 24k psi / 1823 fps

9.3grs would be 43k psi / 2240 fps

12.4grs would be 67k psi / 2590 fps (58% load density)

15.5grs would be 95k psi / 2900 fps (72% LD)

18.6grs would be 131k psi / 3174 fps (87% LD)

21.7grs would be 178k psi / 3440 fps (101% LD)

I'm always leary of loads that will take multiple charges and still fit in the case. A guy could think he had H335 in the powder hopper and start charging cases with 23grs Titegroup
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I've seen videos of the results of doing that and they are not pretty either. But as per good practice, the only powder even close to the bench is the specific powder I'm using at the time. Everything else is in its original bottle and stored. The new loads I'm trying are 3.2 and 3.3 grains of Titegroup and 8,9 & 10 of 4227. The 4227 loads are maybe a 1/3 case fill so definitely need to be careful there too. I shot a .22 Hornet a very long time ago so it will be interesting to see how these compare and if they might have enough gas to cycle a standard AR.
 
todbartell said:
3.1grs Titegroup is 15% load density

6.2grs would be 24k psi / 1823 fps

9.3grs would be 43k psi / 2240 fps

12.4grs would be 67k psi / 2590 fps (58% load density)

15.5grs would be 95k psi / 2900 fps (72% LD)

18.6grs would be 131k psi / 3174 fps (87% LD)

21.7grs would be 178k psi / 3440 fps (101% LD)

I'm always leary of loads that will take multiple charges and still fit in the case. A guy could think he had H335 in the powder hopper and start charging cases with 23grs Titegroup
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If you pay attention you shouldn't have a problem. I use 3.5-4gr of titegroup in a 30-30 case. Pretty fun little rounds loaded like that.
 
yes, we need to pay attention. I can't think of a reason why Titegroup or bluedot, unique etc is superior to TrailBoss or TinStar for reduced loads
 
dirtybarry said:
Not true. Illegal to sell commercially without a license but a private sale of small quantities is perfectly legal. But most people are risk adverse and afraid of being sued for probably valid reasons.
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Reference please.

The Explosives Act and regulations say otherwise.

PART 5
Manufacturing Explosives
Overview

52 (1) This Part sets out the rules for manufacturing Footnote *explosives. However, it does not apply to the manufacture of Footnote *small arms cartridges or black powder cartouches for personal use or to repackaging under a vendor magazine licence.
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Possession, etc.

21 (1) Except as authorized by or under this Act, every person who, personally or by an agent or a mandatary, acquires, is in possession of, sells, offers for sale, stores, uses, makes, manufactures, transports, imports, exports or delivers any explosive, or acquires, is in possession of, sells or offers for sale any restricted component, is guilty of an offence and is liable

(a) on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding two hundred and fifty thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or to both; or

(b) on proceedings by way of indictment, to a fine not exceeding five hundred thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years or to both.
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Emphasis added.

If you're manufacturing for other than personal use, you need to be licensed by NRCan. If you manufacture for non personal use, you're committing an offence. If you sell cartridges made without a license you're committing a second offence. Each individual day you manufacture and sell outside the regs is a seperate offence.

I don't see anywhere in the Act or regs where it says small quantities sold privately is ok.
 
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MRCLARK said:
Anyone be willing to sell any of these 223 subsonic loads sounds like fun and I can't reload worth a ####e.
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I don't understand what you mean by you can't reload worth a ####e.
Maybe try doing it without alcohol and try paying attention to what you're doing. It's not complicated.

No one with any brains would buy or sell reloads. There's always a chance something can go wrong and there would be a huge liability issue to deal with if your gun blows up in your face shooting loads someone else made.
 
I hate to be the odd guy out here, but it seems like you're working completely against the purpose of what the cartridge was built for.

Don't get me wrong, fill your boots and have fun reloading however you want, but it seems like you're trying to use a hammer for a screwdriver when you also have a screwdriver.

22LR sends a 40gr projectile at/around that velocity, so it seems bizarre to throttle back something that's meant to go 3000fps all the way down to 1000fps.

If you're interested in playing around with cool soft-shooting subsonic ammo, though, I'd highly recommend reloading 9mm with 147gr bullets, which just drops it into sub-sonic range.

However, you're using a much cheaper cartridge build and you're getting much more bullet on target than getting a 223/5.56 down to that range, which costs more and is barely more than a much cheaper 22LR.
 
Petamocto said:
I hate to be the odd guy out here, but it seems like you're working completely against the purpose of what the cartridge was built for.

Don't get me wrong, fill your boots and have fun reloading however you want, but it seems like you're trying to use a hammer for a screwdriver when you also have a screwdriver.

22LR sends a 40gr projectile at/around that velocity, so it seems bizarre to throttle back something that's meant to go 3000fps all the way down to 1000fps.

If you're interested in playing around with cool soft-shooting subsonic ammo, though, I'd highly recommend reloading 9mm with 147gr bullets, which just drops it into sub-sonic range.

However, you're using a much cheaper cartridge build and you're getting much more bullet on target than getting a 223/5.56 down to that range, which costs more and is barely more than a much cheaper 22LR.
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Runs about 18 cents a round. The whole reason for doing this was only because I kept seeing this load on the Hodgdon site and had to find out if it was for real. It is btw,
The Hornet loads are just a possible way to use up all the 4227 powder that I don't use for .44 mag anymore.
 
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