Subtle Effects of Wind

p-17

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I'm making this thread because I want to see if I have enough tech savvy to actually post photos on CGN. So here goes...

Yesterday, I was at the range in Mission, playing with my "precision" rifle -- a .308 built on an old BSA action (with claw extractor) in a thumbhole stock, wearing a take-off Krieger palma barrel cut down to 26 inches. Until 2006, this was the rifle I used for iron-sight competitive shooting.

I always like to do my load testing at 200 metres because I find it gives me a better picture of the subtle differences between loads. Lots of loads look good at 100, but any problems become readily apparent at 200, in my experience.

Yesterday illustrated nicely the other side of the coin: the danger of relying upon 200 metres for load testing.

By the time you reach 200, the wind can have a noticeable effect.

Yesterday, I shot my "control load" at 200. This is my standard load for this rifle and barrel: 45.0 grains Varget, in a Federal case, ignited by a 210M, pushing a 155 AMAX, seated to 2.810". I was planning to experiment with some new bullets, as well as try some different charges of Vihtavuori N550. By the time I fired the control load, the wind was gusting a bit, but I shot through it without concern. I simply fired the string, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, without looking through the spotting scope or making any windage corrections. I had a friend spot my target while I was shooting, and he noted about halfway through the string that the wind had dropped off.

Anyway, here is that 200 metre group, with the shots numbered in the order they were fired. The moment that the breeze let off is immediately apparent:

BSA200mwindtarget.jpg


The breeze was mainly visible in the form of a light rustling of the leaves on the right side of the range. It was also apparent in the mirage through the spotting scope. As you can see, even this subtle breeze had a half-minute effect on the shots. If I didn't realize all this, I might conclude this was a mediocre load just by measuring the group size. The entire string measures a shade less than 1.5 inches, which translates into 3/4 moa -- pretty crappy for this rifle.

As a result of this lesson, I fired my N550 test loads at 100 metres. I guess there is a lot of wisdom in the standard practice of doing load testing at 100, and I stand humbled. :redface:
 
Nothing wrong with that group when shooting in the wind. I always figure the best groups are the ones with the least elevation stringing. Almost every shot in the group touches the horz line, so I would have to say it is a good load. The height of your group is about what 1/2" or less at 200m?



You can't control the wind so you have to read it, but only if you want to put them in the center of the target. If you are just shooting groups to develope loads, I wouldn't worry about horz strings as much as vertical.

Now if that was a vertical group, that's another story.
 
I used to test at 100 like crazy developing loads for long range shooting but found mixed results. Now I test or proof the long range stuff at 300. I’m not sure you’re taking about long range are you?

Earlier this year I was getting ready for a long range match with a new barrel. I started developing at 100 yards. Got them going into one ragged hole and was about to leave the range. I decided to try them at 300 and the group was 2.5 inches... useless. I ended up staying later at the range and doing more tweaking until dusk at 300 till I got them dropping into 3/4 of an inch. Then tried the reverse shooting this new load at 100... groups opened back up but I used that 300 load in the match with some good results.

I've got a buddy who say if they're not all touching at 300 he's not shooting them at long range. If I tried to get them all touching at 300 guess what? I'd be screwing on another barrel before match time!

I've tried all kinds of combinations of distances for proofing loads. I've moved away from proofing at 100 because the feedback you get is not reliable for long range in my opinion. You need the information/feedback you get at 200 and more preferably 300 if you’ve got that distance at your test range.

You can get into the science of if they’re going into one tiny hole at 100 they should be perfect right out to 1000 yards gawd knows there enough heated threads on the subject on some boards. Some of the threads involve the “going to sleep” aspects. After reading them I’m not sure which is going to sleep the bullets or the shooters.

Certainly Tom’s point is very relevant. Your group(s) is not showing much vertical. Load it and shoot it. You’ve got more to learn (possible loose) from reading the wind/mirage than problems with that load your showing here.

I’ve also found that you need calm conditions for testing. I take flags with tell-tales or streamers to the range. The slightest breeze can fudge results. Finding or planning on arriving on the range on a clam day never seems to happen so the tell-tales at least give me an indication of where the bullets are potentially being pushed. Time your tests early morning or late afternoon. That’s when I’ve found my range to be best. I would imagine many ranges are like this.

You don’t need to run out and buy a set of flags I got mine because I was dabbling in BR and they were left over from that effort. You can accomplish the same thing using coat hanger wire and some plastic streamers…

Watch your ES and SD you need to get that down as low as you can get it. It will have more effect on your results than you might imagine. Consistency in your brass also helps as does consistency in your bullet lots and powders and maybe primers.

Improving this load further might be counterproductive to simply shooting it under match conditions. At this point you’d loose more points from a missed wind call.
 
p-17 said:
I'm making this thread because I want to see if I have enough tech savvy to actually post photos on CGN. So here goes...

Yesterday, I was at the range in Mission, playing with my "precision" rifle -- a .308 built on an old BSA action (with claw extractor) in a thumbhole stock, wearing a take-off Krieger palma barrel cut down to 26 inches. Until 2006, this was the rifle I used for iron-sight competitive shooting.

I always like to do my load testing at 200 metres because I find it gives me a better picture of the subtle differences between loads. Lots of loads look good at 100, but any problems become readily apparent at 200, in my experience.

Yesterday illustrated nicely the other side of the coin: the danger of relying upon 200 metres for load testing.

By the time you reach 200, the wind can have a noticeable effect.

Yesterday, I shot my "control load" at 200. This is my standard load for this rifle and barrel: 45.0 grains Varget, in a Federal case, ignited by a 210M, pushing a 155 AMAX, seated to 2.810". I was planning to experiment with some new bullets, as well as try some different charges of Vihtavuori N550. By the time I fired the control load, the wind was gusting a bit, but I shot through it without concern. I simply fired the string, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, without looking through the spotting scope or making any windage corrections. I had a friend spot my target while I was shooting, and he noted about halfway through the string that the wind had dropped off.

Anyway, here is that 200 metre group, with the shots numbered in the order they were fired. The moment that the breeze let off is immediately apparent:

BSA200mwindtarget.jpg


The breeze was mainly visible in the form of a light rustling of the leaves on the right side of the range. It was also apparent in the mirage through the spotting scope. As you can see, even this subtle breeze had a half-minute effect on the shots. If I didn't realize all this, I might conclude this was a mediocre load just by measuring the group size. The entire string measures a shade less than 1.5 inches, which translates into 3/4 moa -- pretty crappy for this rifle.

As a result of this lesson, I fired my N550 test loads at 100 metres. I guess there is a lot of wisdom in the standard practice of doing load testing at 100, and I stand humbled. :redface:

I wouldn't worry about the load, as the weather report is obvious, and the two that are stray are still inside the vertical string of the rest .
Cat
 
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I tend to make a comparison that some don't at times :D LOL, anyway for what its worth , I find what a 22 rimfire does at 50-100 Meters, you can expect the same from some big game rigs at 200-300 meters. This can be quite a bit depending on the wind direction and speed. Another reason to use the fine little cal. as a training tool. :D
 
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