superior accuracy. custom VS factory ?

Jericho said:
+1 for the horse feces comment.

My 10FCP-K stock shoots half a minute. You are wrong.
Click to expand...

Good for you. Will the next 10 rifles on the shelf perform as well as that? The next 100? Highly unlikely.

A custom builder might have 1 out of 100 rifles that don't shoot sub 1/2 minute as expected, while maybe 1 of 100 mass produced factory rifles will produce sub 1/2 minute groups. You got lucky bud.
 
J996 said:
Keeping things more in tune with this side of the pond, if Canada's PGW chambered one of their Coyotes in 6XC using one of their big krieger's, I have no doubt it would print in the .2's. I'd like to see it tried (not by me though, I'm broke at the moment and am definitely not a pro shooter).
Click to expand...

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I'm pretty sure that all of PGW's barrels are PacNor. Cadex is using Bartlien blanks and contouring in house. And I would also support the comment that these are in fact semi-custom if not custom rifles as they are hand built and fitted in high end shops. Not mass produced. The quality is there to see. Just cause you cant select your specific calibers and such is just a limitation on options, not quality.

On the other hand, one of the first rifles we put out the door to one of our customers that owns a Coyote outshoots his Coyote....
 
And I would also support the comment that these are in fact semi-custom if not custom rifles as they are hand built and fitted in high end shops. Not mass produced.
Click to expand...
Yes. Calling PGW, AI, and the like "factory rifles" for the purpose of this thread would be incorrect.
 
BenchrestJohn said:
In my opinion you for out 3 to 4k for lots say Sako. It will keep its high value for a long time
You fork out 4k for custom plus the gunsmith fees, you never see your money back
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say that. Custom actions and stocks keep their value pretty well. Plus you have to remember you are paying a premium for the "custom" part too. You can't order a Sako to your exact specifications.
And how much of the price tag for the Sako is just for the brand name?
 
Schecter 81 said:
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I'm pretty sure that all of PGW's barrels are PacNor. Cadex is using Bartlien blanks and contouring in house. And I would also support the comment that these are in fact semi-custom if not custom rifles as they are hand built and fitted in high end shops. Not mass produced. The quality is there to see. Just cause you cant select your specific calibers and such is just a limitation on options, not quality.

On the other hand, one of the first rifles we put out the door to one of our customers that owns a Coyote outshoots his Coyote....
Click to expand...

Timberwolf 338 Lapua green camo (CF C14 clone)
Timberwolf 338 Lapua desert camo

-26" Krieger, 1-10, helical fluted, suppressor compatible (you cannot have).
-Side port (6) muzzle brake.
-25 moa Picatinny scope rail.
-Fully adjustable trigger.
-5 shot detachable stainless magazine.
-Fully adjustable A5 stock.
-Cantilever monoblock bedding.


Coyote 7.62 green
Coyote 7.62 desert camo

-24" Krieger, 1-10, helical fluted, suppressor compatible (you cannot have).
-Side port (4) muzzle brake.
-25 moa Picatinny scope rail.
-Fully adjustable trigger.
-8 shot detachable stainless magazine.
-Fully adjustable A5 stock.
-Cantilever monoblock bedding.
 
That's interesting. Where were you able to find that info? The website doesn't have much for detail on it. I can't remember where I heard it, thought if was from Ross but I may be wrong. I was surprised though when I heard PacNor. Would make more sense if they were using Krieger.

J996 said:
Timberwolf 338 Lapua green camo (CF C14 clone)
Timberwolf 338 Lapua desert camo

-26" Krieger, 1-10, helical fluted, suppressor compatible (you cannot have).
-Side port (6) muzzle brake.
-25 moa Picatinny scope rail.
-Fully adjustable trigger.
-5 shot detachable stainless magazine.
-Fully adjustable A5 stock.
-Cantilever monoblock bedding.


Coyote 7.62 green
Coyote 7.62 desert camo

-24" Krieger, 1-10, helical fluted, suppressor compatible (you cannot have).
-Side port (4) muzzle brake.
-25 moa Picatinny scope rail.
-Fully adjustable trigger.
-8 shot detachable stainless magazine.
-Fully adjustable A5 stock.
-Cantilever monoblock bedding.
Click to expand...
 
Schecter 81 said:
That's interesting. Where were you able to find that info? The website doesn't have much for detail on it. I can't remember where I heard it, thought if was from Ross but I may be wrong. I was surprised though when I heard PacNor. Would make more sense if they were using Krieger.
Click to expand...

I think they used Pacnors on some of their M15 and M18 Sporter builds (I believe Gaillards as well).My Coyote has a Krieger and so does a buddy's.
 
Nobody is commenting on the gun smithing , there's got to be a difference in quality in How it's put together ,clambering ,alignment and with what type equipment etc . Or is a custom a custom ?
 
Something that people are not mentioning is the reliability of higher-end factory guns vs custom guns.

At the match on Saturday I would say that custom guns had far more issues than a factory gun. I saw Bighorn, Surgeon/Defiance (and the like), Remington customs all have some kind of issue or another (double feeds, failure to eject, etc.).

The guns that ran perfectly? An AI AT and PGW Coyote (correct me if I am wrong Marcoman) - food for thought. The new Rugers seemed to run well also but I wasn't watching everything.
 
Yeah, even in the states, some of the custom guns had issues in my squad. My DT ran like a champ, there was a guy with a defiance that kept getting light primer strikes. He had to keep cocking the bolt every other shot. There was another savage that had feeding issues, like the round would dip in mag. Another remington style custom in AT chassis, kept having feeding issues, there wasn't many factory guns other than mine out there though.
 
Didn't they say you were the first to have no issues with a DTA???

Must be the lefty.
bsand said:
Yeah, even in the states, some of the custom guns had issues in my squad. My DTA ran like a champ, there was a guy with a defiance that kept getting light primer strikes. He had to keep cocking the bolt every other shot. There was another savage that had feeding issues, like the round would dip in mag. Another remington style custom in AT chassis, kept having feeding issues, there wasn't many factory guns other than mine out there though.
Click to expand...
 
Ryan.M.Anderson said:
Something that people are not mentioning is the reliability of higher-end factory guns vs custom guns.

At the match on Saturday I would say that custom guns had far more issues than a factory gun. I saw Bighorn, Surgeon/Defiance (and the like), Remington customs all have some kind of issue or another (double feeds, failure to eject, etc.).

The guns that ran perfectly? An AI AT and PGW Coyote (correct me if I am wrong Marcoman) - food for thought. The new Rugers seemed to run well also but I wasn't watching everything.
Click to expand...

That is definitely something to note. Most "factory" are first and foremost optimized for reliability and accuracy second. A "custom" gun is generally built to deliver the greatest possible accuracy, which very often conflicts with reliability. It's not hard to make a peerlessly reliable rifle accurate, but it can be hard to make a peerlessly accurate rifle reliable, especially when magazines are involved.

This of course doesn't apply to the "factory" rifles that are employed as sniper rifles. PGWs, AIs, TRGs and the like are required to not only have peerless reliability, but they also need to be deadly accurate. Perhaps not as accurate as a dedicated bench gun, bet certainly very close.
 
burnaby said:
Didn't they say you were the first to have no issues with a DTA???

Must be the lefty.
Click to expand...

haha thats what one of em said. It must have been built different. Apparently it was issues with mags, I suppose QC got better as time went on. Its been flawless, and the bolts pretty smooth now once its been worked in. I;ve shot around 800 rounds through it so far, probably dry fired another couple thousand.
 
If we take the PGW DTI timberwolf as an example the military requirement was a hit ratio of 90% on a chest sized target (18") at 1200m or 1312y.
A rifle which is capable of shooting 0.66moa should be able to hit an 18" plate 100% of the time assuming no outside variables.
0.66moa is equal to 9" at 1312y
That is 0.66moa using factory ammo.
By keeping a relatively "sloppy" spec compared to a custom bench gun there is built in reliability due to debris such as dust or moisture which can be present in the field.
This is probably why custom guns have more issues than the guns built for battle.
 
- 6.5k will buy you a gun with optics capable of the accuracy you are seeking in a custom or factory

- many people here do not understand what a factory gun is as referenced in this post (it is not ANY factory gun but rather a select few high end ones)

- factory guns will hold value much better then custom

- factory guns will shoot alongside custom in most applications

- The EE offers loads of excellent deals on custom "mistakes". With a little patience a 300WM that fits the bill for you will appear and you can save 1000's$$
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom