Survey of 1878 Colts purchased by the Govt. of Canada in 1885

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rickruddell

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Hi,

I am putting together a survey of the 1,001 Colts purchased by the Government of Canada for the Riel Rebellion in 1885 - They were all .45 caliber nickel plated with a 7.5" barrel (the triggers, screws, and hammers on most - but not all - were blued). About one half of the ones I have found have a Militia and Defence marking (MD) on the frame (e.g., 71 MD).

So far, these guns fall within the serial number range of 7473 to 14,996. Most I have found are in the 14,000 to 14,996 range. They were purchased by Hartley and Graham in NY and then shipped to Canada but got there too late for the Riel Rebellion. Many of them were in service during the Boer War, and some were used in WW1.

So far I have found about 75 "survivors" of the 1,001 purchased by Canada.

Would really like to hear from folks who have one of these old Colts - and would appreciate if you would PM me information about your Colt for my serial number list.

If you are uncomfortable sharing the entire serial number of the Colt you can XX the last two digits - would really like to know if your gun has any special markings, such as M.D. or R.C.A.

I plan on using the serial number information for a short article on these Colts (am a college professor - if you google my name Rick Ruddell and Regina you can "check me out"). I will not share any information with anybody about these firearms other than posting the serial number (and no other details).

All the best,

Rick



Here are the numbers I have so far:

Serial Numbers: 1878 Colts – Shipped to Canada

7473
8157
8731
9132
9818
9894
10130
10193
11514
11744
11750
11757
11760
11954
12084
12128
12166
12380
12583
12827
12986
13310
13396
13534
13992
14373
14398
14432
14464
14480
14492
14495
14523
14563
14579
14599
14607
14616
14617
14618
14619
14639
14643
14644
14649
14660
14665
14673
14704
14721
14725
14730
14733
14754
14765
14769
14779
14789
14815
14837
14847
14848
14862
14890
14899
14913
14932
14934
14940
14972
14981
14982
14993
14996
 
I have been trying to respond to your post, but am getting extremely frustrated by pop-up screens which tell me I am not logged in (although I know for a fact that I am) and then erasing what I have composed to post. Please PM me ...
 
Interesting project RR...

I've read some bits on Colts that were used through the Louis Riel escapade and always been curious about it. I'd like to see what you end up with when you're done. Canadian govt side or Louis' side, Colts use during the dispute and historical data of any kind tied to it is something just'about any gun or history enthusiast in this country might find interest in.

I have heard tales of two SAA guns that were found years back which had ties to the rebellion, supposedly destroyed afterwards (shame) but being so close to home it's tough to have not taken interest toward. It wasn't long after I was out of school that I heard that, and of coarse at one time Social Studies taught the history behind Louis Riel (among other things) that I doubt is still curriculum. Anyway, I always figured those kind of finds should have gone to a proper museum someplace, hell, today they'd be worth small fortunes. Government sure does some foolish things in trying to sweep certain history's under the rug.
 
I was mighty frustrated when I posted last night ... am going to try this again ... :rolleyes:

I. Use in the 1885 Rebellion

My first observation is that I believe you are in error when you suggest that the Model 1878 Colt Double-Action revolvers got to Canada too late for use in the 1885 Rebellion. In Canadian Military Handguns, 1855-1985 Clive Law quotes a speech of Militia & Defence Minister Caron in Parliament, reporting that "to meet the needs of the Mounted Corps specially organized in the North West, a supply of 'Colts' Army Revolvers ... were sent forward to Winnipeg." (This statement must relate to Model 1878 revolvers, since they were the first Colt revolvers purchased in any quantity by Canada since the acquisition of Model 1851 percussion revolvers well prior to Confederationt.)

More specifically to the point, the official statement of "Arms and Ammunition issued to Corps of the North-West Forces, Settlers and others" by Lt-Col Jackson (Principal Supply, Pay and Transport Officer) lists a total of 347 revolvers issued by him to various units. (The established Militia units mobilized and sent West took the firearms already on issue to them, together with such stores of ammunition as they had. The arms and ammunition issued in the North-West under Jackson's authority were either to supplement what those units already had or, more importantly, to arm provisional and home guard units raised in Manitoba and the Territories.)

One of the many disadvantages of having had to re-register recently as a "newbie" on CGN is that I must wait awhile before I can include images in my posts. Accordingly, I am at present limited to posting this link to the Summary Table of Arms and Ammunition issues incorporated in the Formal Report to Parliament on the 1885 Rebellion - https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/713x687q90/923/0BwRxT.jpg
Because ImageShack limits the size of that scan, it may be difficult to read ... so I will summarize the specific revolver issues here: Moose Mountain Scouts - 52; Gov.-General's Body Guard - 72; York & simcoe Battalion - 3; Alberta Field Force - 160; Winnipeg Troop of Cavalry - 4; Cavalry School Corps - 6; Supply Officer, Qu'Appelle (Capt. Swinford) - 50.

Another observation: the issue of only three revolvers to the York & Simcoe Battalion suggests that they were clearly intended for the use of officers ... which is quite understandable, that being an infantry unit. The same might also be the case with the 4 revolvers issued to the Winnipeg Troop of Cavalry and the 6 issued to the Cavalry School Corps ... however, it would appear, with respect to the Governor-General's Body Guard, that this entire cavalry unit were issued with revolvers in addition to Winchesters. Accordingly, it also seems possible that both the Winnipeg Troop and the C.S.C. may have been separately issued revolvers as part of their existing unit armament, and only needed a few extras from the Supply Officer of the Expeditionary Force in order to be fully equipped.

II. Revolvers Marked to the Cavalry School Corps

With respect to military/government markings on some of these Model 1878 revolvers, I am aware of at least two revolvers (and possibly a third) with markigns clearly denoting fairly early issue to the Cavalry School Corps. (I say "fairly early" because, as you likely know that "full-time" cavalry component of the small "Permanent Militia" only bore that name from its establishment in 1883 until it was renamed "Royal School of Cavalry" in 1887 ... subsequently changed to the "Canadian Dragoons" in 1892 and finally "The Royal Canadian Dragoons" in 1893.)

Particulars of these revolvers:
- 1) a revolver, posted about years ago (here on CGN if memory serves) by "Wayne Head", which is marked on the backstrap "C.S.C. No 3". Unfortunately, I do not seem to have recorded the serial number, but here is a photo of the revolver - https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/500x273q90/923/qYJr55.jpg
... and of its backstrap marking - https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/500x336q90/922/T2LBrM.jpg
- 2) a revolver listed in 2006 by Joe Salter - S/N 14521 (... not on your list ...) and marked on the backstrap "C.S.C. No 6". (In this case, I recorded the serial number, but cannot locate any photos I might have saved from the listing.)
- 3) a possible third example is a revolver I saw a number of years ago at the Swift Current Gun Show. I clearly remember it was also marked "C.S.C." on the backstrap, but cannot recall any other details of the marking, so I cannot be certain it was not in fact one of the two revolvers listed above.

III. My Own "Likely" 1885 Canadian-Purchase Revolver

I have a Model 1878 Colt revolver of the correct configuration, which I am fairly confident was part of the 1885 Canadian purchase ... but unfortunately cannot be certain tht is the case. It is S/N 11744 and, as confirmed by a Colt Factory Letter, was included in a shipment of 25 revolvers from Colt to Hartley and Graham on September 5, 1883 ... at which time the factory records show that it had a blued finish. That curious fact actually adds to the liklihood that this revolver which ended up in Canada was part of the 1885 purchase by Militia & Defence.

As you may know, Don Wilkerson's exhaustive Colt Double-Action Revolver Model of 1878 contains a nine-page section specifically covering the 1885 Canadian-Purchase revolvers, in which he details his detailed examination of Colt Factory Records of 1878 revolvers sold to hartley and Graham, and his analysis of those records in comparsion to surviving known Canadian Militia revolvers and the other details which are known about the sale of revolvers by H&G to Canada. He notes that the Dept. of M&D may have explored the possibility of purchasing revolvers from the firm as early as 1883 and that,in any event, H&G purchased a rather surprising quantity (525) of .45 7 ½" Model 1878 revolvers in 1883 (259 of them blued and 266 nickel plated) but none in that configuration in 1884. Then in April of 1885 they received seven shipments totalling 640 such revolvers for the Canadian order (plus an additional 50 blued Model 1878 revolvers that month.) They made up the total Canadian order of 1,001 revolvers from the stock remaining from their 1883 purchases. However, he also notes that even if H&G had not yet sold a single one of the 266 nickel revolvers they received in 1883, they would have been short 97 nickel revolvers to complete the order for 1,001, leading to the inescapable conclusion that they must have arranged for the nickel plating of some of the blued revolvers in their inventory ... and he in fact discovered that no less than three of the confirmed surviving Canadian Militia 1885 revolvers he reviewed had in fact been shipped to H&G with a blued finish ... all three were from the 1883 shipments but he could not discount the possibility that one or more of the 50 blued revolvers shipped to H&G on April 25 1885 might also have gotten nickel plated. (Seems more logical to me that, in order to fill the Canadian order as quickly as possible, H&G would have sought to get blued revolvers they already had in inventory nickel plated, and that the batch of 50 blued revolvers shipped to them at the end of April, would be to bring their inventory of blued revolvers back up.)

At any rate, my revolver (shipped blued to Hartley and Graham in September of 1883, but ending up in Canada with a nickel plated finish) would seem to be a very likely candidate as another such revolver which got plated by H&G to complete the Canadian order. Unfortunately, my revolver does not have M.D. or any other apparent Canadian government/military markings ...

My revolver - https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1150x580q90/924/h6OUmO.jpg

Excerpt from my Colt Factory Letter - https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/750x330q90/924/Kj51zR.jpg
 
Hi GrantR -- Thanks for the note. I have looked at the Hartley and Graham hand written ledgers (which are available online) but I couldn't find the original order for these 1878 Colts -- but learned that Hartley and Graham sold a lot of guns and equipment to a lot countries. Will follow up with you. Rick
 
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