Sweden,s lend-lease
- Thread starter vstar650ca
- Start date
Also, the Swedish Government, opted out of the second war between the Russian and the Finns, especially after the Russians planes "accidently" bombed the Swedish capital, Stockholm, and thereby showing the Swedish of "things to come", if the "neutral" Sweden, through Finland, got involved with a shooting war with Russia again.
Why the littleputian Finns, then working together with Nazi-Germany, in the first place decided to attack mighty Russia, at the cost of 50000 young Finnish soldiers life, and permanent loss of large chunks of prized Finnish real estate to Russia, remains a mystery.
Was the then Finnish military high command so pregnant with power, and believed that the Nazi's was going to win it's war against Russia, and therefore wanted to, militarily annex parts of Russia, while Russia was militarily and politically "weak" ?
Why the littleputian Finns, then working together with Nazi-Germany, in the first place decided to attack mighty Russia, at the cost of 50000 young Finnish soldiers life, and permanent loss of large chunks of prized Finnish real estate to Russia, remains a mystery.
Was the then Finnish military high command so pregnant with power, and believed that the Nazi's was going to win it's war against Russia, and therefore wanted to, militarily annex parts of Russia, while Russia was militarily and politically "weak" ?
vstar650ca
CGN Regular
Snowhunter if I remember my history Finland only joined the Nazi war machine in it,s attack of Russia to recapture territory lost to the the Russians in the winter war of 39-40 and once they regained that territory they stopped the push into the Soviet Union to the dissappointment of the German high command.Your point of the Russians bombing Stockholm I was not aware of that.I believe if the Russky,s did attack Sweden,Germany would send every armour and infantry unit they could spare to aid them,as Sweden was their prime sourse of iron ore.Reading the history of the Winter war shows the little Finland gave the Russians a good s**t kicking and only the Ivan,s endless suppliey of men gained the territory from Finland,but they decided not to try to win Finland outright as the Finns where no pushovers.Plus Hitlers desision to invade Russia was based on the Russians poor performance in that warsnowhunter said:
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
snowhunter said:
Treaty of Paris. Russia got to get what it wanted through this Treaty. Kind of the way the Liberals and other socialist extremists work today in Kanada.
It appears that Russia thinks they own Finland. Hence, "Russification" was the Russian policy towards Finland, from the late 19th century to now. That's the ways Russia thinks about Finland today, so it has nothing to do with Communism. The Finns had nothing but tough choices left. They did not have the luxury of us Canadians in that we have the freedom loving U.S.of A. right next door. So they had to kill as many Russian bastards
as they could while they had the chance.
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weren't the Norwegians a little harder to crack than sweden and finland?Seems to me,if I remember my history correctly , the norwegians gave the Germans a run for their money with their resistance.What rifle did the norwegians use?
I have no doubt that the Finns inflicted heavy, Russian casualties. I have seen some numbers suggesting that the Finns caused 200000 Russian casualties ?
However, at the end the Finns lost big time to Russia, who, unlike the Finns, was able to sustain that kind of heavy, human casualties.
If "neutral" Sweden had chosen to support Finlands war against Russia, second time around, the Russians would have forced, part,or all of Sweden into another Soviet Socialist Repulic. In particular, the northern Swedish iron mine, would easyly have ended up in the Soviet hand, and thus harmed the german war effort ? Therefore the Nazi-Germans would also tell the Swedes not to aggrevate the Soviet, by again supporting the Finns during the second war between Russia and Finland ?
I know that the Norwegian used their own "home brew" Krag-Joergensen rifles in 6.5X55 (Swedish) caliber, but did they also use Norwegian made, Mauser 98, in 8x57 caliber ? Also, I believe that the Norwegians was equiped with US and Norwegian made 1911 pistols in .45 caliber.
However, at the end the Finns lost big time to Russia, who, unlike the Finns, was able to sustain that kind of heavy, human casualties.
If "neutral" Sweden had chosen to support Finlands war against Russia, second time around, the Russians would have forced, part,or all of Sweden into another Soviet Socialist Repulic. In particular, the northern Swedish iron mine, would easyly have ended up in the Soviet hand, and thus harmed the german war effort ? Therefore the Nazi-Germans would also tell the Swedes not to aggrevate the Soviet, by again supporting the Finns during the second war between Russia and Finland ?
I know that the Norwegian used their own "home brew" Krag-Joergensen rifles in 6.5X55 (Swedish) caliber, but did they also use Norwegian made, Mauser 98, in 8x57 caliber ? Also, I believe that the Norwegians was equiped with US and Norwegian made 1911 pistols in .45 caliber.
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fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The young socialist extremist people in Canada have this idea there would be no downside to 'getting out of Nato', nafta, auto pact, Echelon, bringing an end to the monarchy; they are dead wrong. Finland in the 20th century is a perfect example of what's waiting for a truly neutral Canada, should we foolishly allow such a thing to happen.
The Swedish send "lend lease" weapons to Finland, and the US send "Lend Lease" weapons to Russia during WW2. Obviously, some of these "Lend Lease" weapons would end up on, captured, the other side of that conflict.
Ever seen or know of any US weapons captured by the Finns, from the Russians ?
Also, that conflict would be the only war, were Swedish and American made weapons was fighting against each other ?
Ever seen or know of any US weapons captured by the Finns, from the Russians ?
Also, that conflict would be the only war, were Swedish and American made weapons was fighting against each other ?
vstar650ca
CGN Regular
The U.S didn,t send weapons and supplies to the Soviets until after the Germans attacked.During the Winter war with Findland, Stalin was in bed with Hitler due to the non-aggression pact signed to give the Nazies breathing space to look after the low countries and France,remember Germany and the Russky,s beat-up Poland as a tag teamsnowhunter said:
Read a good book like" Hitler's Arctic War."
Norway had some partians, but many volunteers in the Viking SS etc. .Norway was conquered by only 20,000 Germans in a couple weeks.
Sweden neutral, but allowed some Wehrmacht units through it's soil on way to the east.
Finland of 3 million people lost 35,000 dead when invaded by the Soviet Union in 39, but the Soviets retreated after 4 months at a loss,their numbers,1,400,000. Finland joined in Operation Barbarossa but only to the northern reaches alongside the mighty Wehrmacht. There were 20,000 Finnish SS too.This old Red army was not the same as the one that marched onward to Berlin in 45, a force to be reconned with.
Finland agreed to ask Germany to leave it's soil around Dec 44 as most of Finland was occupied by Soviets.A northern tip of Sweden and Norway had Soviet troops.
At the end of WWII only Norway had a somewhat large German force of 400,000 soldiers armed and 99 percent of the country in German hands, It was something that Churchill was extremly concered about.But the wehrmacht were not fanatics and handed over Norway to the Allies.
There was lots of Swedish equipment used on the Russian Front. just like equipment from all countries were used there. I have on DVD a French SS soldier holding a #4 Lee Enfield. Swedish markings on war gear are often 3 Crowns, but not always .
Norway had some partians, but many volunteers in the Viking SS etc. .Norway was conquered by only 20,000 Germans in a couple weeks.
Sweden neutral, but allowed some Wehrmacht units through it's soil on way to the east.
Finland of 3 million people lost 35,000 dead when invaded by the Soviet Union in 39, but the Soviets retreated after 4 months at a loss,their numbers,1,400,000. Finland joined in Operation Barbarossa but only to the northern reaches alongside the mighty Wehrmacht. There were 20,000 Finnish SS too.This old Red army was not the same as the one that marched onward to Berlin in 45, a force to be reconned with.
Finland agreed to ask Germany to leave it's soil around Dec 44 as most of Finland was occupied by Soviets.A northern tip of Sweden and Norway had Soviet troops.
At the end of WWII only Norway had a somewhat large German force of 400,000 soldiers armed and 99 percent of the country in German hands, It was something that Churchill was extremly concered about.But the wehrmacht were not fanatics and handed over Norway to the Allies.
There was lots of Swedish equipment used on the Russian Front. just like equipment from all countries were used there. I have on DVD a French SS soldier holding a #4 Lee Enfield. Swedish markings on war gear are often 3 Crowns, but not always .
ratherbefishin said:
Largely the 1894 "Lang-Krag", or "Long Krag". Also had a few 1912/16 Krag carbines. Both in 6.5X55 and both made in Kongsberg, Norway. Some were also made in Denmark.
There were a couple other Krag variants.
The most common service pistol for Norway at the time was the Mod. 1914. It was a Colt 1911 licensed copy. Calibre 11.25mm or .45 ACP.
The Norwegians also had a Nagant revolver as a service pistol, however not as prevalent.
The ammo was mostly made by a company called Raufous.
Their resistance was short lived, as Norway didn't have all that large of a standing army prior to the invasion.
Finland during WW2 was in a bad spot...here is the best written info I found on the subject, one hell of a good read for anyone interested...
Finland, Stalin and Germany in the 1930s:
http://virtual.finland.fi/netcomm/news/showarticle.asp?intNWSAID=25928
The Main site:
http://virtual.finland.fi/History/
Finland, Stalin and Germany in the 1930s:
http://virtual.finland.fi/netcomm/news/showarticle.asp?intNWSAID=25928
The Main site:
http://virtual.finland.fi/History/
Queens Medalist 86,87. The chances for that the vast amount of US "Lend lease" weapons, in the hand of the Russians, was being used against the Finns. Therefore it also remains a strong possibility, that some of these US weapons, used by the Russians, ended up being captured by the Finn's, who also used Swedish supplied weapons to fight the Russians.
That would be the only time during WW2, in which Swedish and US supplied weapons would fight against each other ?
Also, the British send a ill fated force to Narvik, Northern Norway, to help the Norwegian fight the Germans.
The Danes also send 6000 men to the Viking Waffen SS, in which 3000 of them died on the Eastern Front. Some 69000 Danish Krag-Joergensen rifles in the danish 8x58R caliber, was also confiscated and used by the Germans, and nobody knows how, or were they ended up.
That would be the only time during WW2, in which Swedish and US supplied weapons would fight against each other ?
Also, the British send a ill fated force to Narvik, Northern Norway, to help the Norwegian fight the Germans.
The Danes also send 6000 men to the Viking Waffen SS, in which 3000 of them died on the Eastern Front. Some 69000 Danish Krag-Joergensen rifles in the danish 8x58R caliber, was also confiscated and used by the Germans, and nobody knows how, or were they ended up.
Swedish vs Yank equipment? No doubt there would have been a lot of Small Unit Actions all over Europe and elsewhere that would barely make various history books.
A Canadian Major of the 12th field Art. Rg. died in Tunius May 1943 fighting along side the 8th Army against the DAK! This is in my Grandfather's Regimental book from WWII! Did he use Canadian equipment against the Afrika Korps? The only 8th Army Vet I met ,and worked with, said a Battalion of foreigners including Canadians were in North Africa.
On my other side of the family my father was Lithuainian SS, he was in German camo fighting the Red Army but what equipment did a very small poor country use against the Soviets, anything I would guess.
Also Quote from book Hitlers Artic War..
"Sweden although refusing to intervene in the war, did at least sell Finland considerable quantities of arms and supplies and allowing 8,000 men to volunteer to fight for Finland"
Also the Wehrmacht 163 Infantry Division of 14,000 crossed Sweden on the way to Finland with all it's equipment and arms.
Soldiers being soldiers it is easy to guess how much foreign equipment was picked up all across Europe. And used in combat.
Of Krags, I've owned a few and know that the confiscated ones and the rifles made 1940-45 were suppose to be for german garrison units in Norway only.
Danish Krags I don't know. But someone on this site does!
A Canadian Major of the 12th field Art. Rg. died in Tunius May 1943 fighting along side the 8th Army against the DAK! This is in my Grandfather's Regimental book from WWII! Did he use Canadian equipment against the Afrika Korps? The only 8th Army Vet I met ,and worked with, said a Battalion of foreigners including Canadians were in North Africa.
On my other side of the family my father was Lithuainian SS, he was in German camo fighting the Red Army but what equipment did a very small poor country use against the Soviets, anything I would guess.
Also Quote from book Hitlers Artic War..
"Sweden although refusing to intervene in the war, did at least sell Finland considerable quantities of arms and supplies and allowing 8,000 men to volunteer to fight for Finland"
Also the Wehrmacht 163 Infantry Division of 14,000 crossed Sweden on the way to Finland with all it's equipment and arms.
Soldiers being soldiers it is easy to guess how much foreign equipment was picked up all across Europe. And used in combat.
Of Krags, I've owned a few and know that the confiscated ones and the rifles made 1940-45 were suppose to be for german garrison units in Norway only.
Danish Krags I don't know. But someone on this site does!
