Swiss 1889, (not a "k31) bolt troubles. Help needed."

Morley

Morley

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I have tried searching all over the place, looking for a solution. No luck.

I have, what someone here told me, a K31. I have looked at photos and Youtube. The rifles look the same, but the bolts are different. Did they change the bolts at one point? Mine is threaded. Those aren't.

Anyway, my issue is the action of the bolt. It goes fully forward and functions great, empty. When there is a round present, the bolt meets resistance about 1/4 inch from being fully forward. I dyed the case, looking for points of contact in the bore. Nothing. I can put the round in by hand and it will fully seat, trouble free as well. Just something about the bolt and the round as a combo brings trouble. Anyone have any advice? Know the problem? Seen it before?

FYI, the gun has been rebored, rifled and stamped 30-30WCF. I have no idea when that was done. It was given to me over Christmas, by either the second or fiftyith owner.

Thanks in advance.

~Morley
 
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Sounds like you've got a K11 or something along those lines. I'm only familiar with the K31, but the version before that was a slightly different design. If I remember correctly the K31's mag sits closer to the trigger guard than the model before it. Usually earlier K series guns were rebarreled to 3030 because 7.5x55 or whatever they were originally chambered in wasn't very common and the earlier guns in the series had rear locking lugs rather than forward locking, which meant a slightly weaker action.

world guns.ru might be able to show you the difference.
 
The Shooting Edge has a Swiss gunsmith on site who is very familiar with K31 rifles and the like. Making a call down there or even shipping the bolt to them for repair might be an option for you. Ask for Stefan.
 
Morley said:
I have tried searching all over the place, looking for a solution. No luck.

I have, what someone here told me, a K31. I have looked at photos and Youtube. The rifles look the same, but the bolts are different. Did they change the bolts at one point? Mine is threaded. Those aren't.

Anyway, my issue is the action of the bolt. It goes fully forward and functions great, empty. When there is a round present, the bolt meets resistance about 1/4 inch from being fully forward. I dyed the case, looking for points of contact in the bore. Nothing. I can put the round in by hand and it will fully seat, trouble free as well. Just something about the bolt and the round as a combo brings trouble. Anyone have any advice? Know the problem? Seen it before?

FYI, the gun has been rebored, rifled and stamped 30-30WCF. I have no idea when that was done. It was given to me over Christmas, by either the second or fiftyith owner.

Thanks in advance.

~Morley
Click to expand...

You likely have a Schmidt-Rubin model 1889 there. I have seen many of them for sale over the years for sale, chambered in 30-30. Likely a sporter conversion.
 
diopter said:
Check your extractor, and ring safety should in fire position, and follow these directions.

http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/rheadrick/1911bolt.html

A 30-30 re-bore might be an M1889 cut down.

Check near the bottom of this link.
http://www.swissrifles.com/sr/detail/

12 round mag?
Click to expand...

Fairly certain now that it is, in fact, a K11. Same bolt assembly and it's a six round mag. One that doesn't want to hold ammo. The one time I loaded the mag, I chambered, fired and ejected. When the spend casing came out, so did EVERY round in the mag!

As for the position, yes it is in the FIRE position. I know, it won't go in in the safe position. It hurts your hand to slide the bolt forward hard enough to fully seat. At least it won't fire unless its there!

~Morley
 
Want some pictures?

Tell you what: I will take some pictures and post them up here so you can have a look at her. And before we do her close-up, just so we're all clear, they're beauty marks, not rust spots!:D

~Morley
 
Looks like I have an 1889, not a K31!

Here's a picture of my bolt.
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And I guess the position of the hole indicates that it is an 1889.
25335_10150099429865416_614550415_11114001_4260612_n.jpg"][COLOR=


This is the position when the resistance is first felt:
25335_10150099429970416_614550415_11114003_2576076_n.jpg"][COLOR=


And this is as far as it will go with a round in.
25335_10150099431745416_614550415_11114005_2104287_n.jpg"][COLOR=


You can see that the round is held well.
25335_10150099431800416_614550415_11114006_2449422_n.jpg"][COLOR=



I hope these photos help someone help me.

Thanks.

~Morley
 
So, I was over on the Swiss Rifles forum and got a solution. The problem was my extractor. Now that I have figured out how to rectify the problem, I created another. I had to file away at one edge of the extractor. When I reassembled and tried it, it worked alot better, but not as well as I like. I took it apart a second time. That's when the extractor snapped in half. I can't win.

Got one?

~Morley
 
That's the way it is with bubba'd milsurps :p

Now that you know your problem you'll have a better time at it I bet.

I'm going to assume since the K31 uses 7.5x55, that the k11 does too. If that is the case, there might have been less room for the extractor to fit, so they thinned it out to fit over the rim. Take a look at where it broke, and any rub marks on the case body, rim, extractor itself, and inside of the receiver where the extractor may have rubbed or jammed against something and been stressed.

It could have also been old....... but that'll give you something to do while you wait for a new one.
 
That seems to me to be an 1889 bolt. At least, that's what my 4 '89s all look like.
Did not they move the locking lugs to the FRONT of the locking sleeve for the 1911?

LOTSA poor 1889s got buthered into minimal .30-30s, mostly with a chamber sleeve. No matter, the original Swiss 3-groove rifling was left intact. People might laugh at them, but they can be made to shoot.

No matter, every collection of straight-pulls NEEDS at least one '89 Schmitt-Rubin; the '89 is the basic design from which all the others were developed, including the K.31.

Most important: have fun with your toy!
 
I'll copy this important post from Parashooter in the Swissrifles Message forum.

Hearing of Morley's troubles prompted me to look at the extractor removal instructions at Swissrifles.com. If he followed these, it's no wonder he broke it!

To remove the extractor, you will need two small,
thin-bladed screwdrivers. Hold the long bolt nose in
your left hand, bolt face under your thumb and the
threaded end sticking out the bottom. Use the left
thumb to push the extractor hook slightly away from
the bolt body, and with the right hand, slip one
screwdriver tip between bolt body and extractor, about
1/2 inch back from the boltface. Careful not to
scratch the surfaces. The extractor must come up about
.040", to clear a lug underneath.

Folks, this is not the safest way to remove an 1889 or 1911 extractor. The right way is found in the (translated) carbine manual at http://www.swissrifles.co...glish_k11_k31_manual.pdf , page 26(28) .

With both thumbs, remove the extractor
by rotating it to the right; if necessary,
support the left part of the claw against
a stop and tap lightly on the cylinder to
free the extractor.

1911extrem.jpg


The two lugs on the extractor, and the corresponding recesses in the bolt, are V-shaped in profile, allowing them to cam out of engagement without any lifting or prying.
 
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