Swiss Arms 100 yard ammo test (Pic heavy) Big update post #32

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Ar180shooter

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So today I hit the range with a friend, and we chronographed and tested the accuracy of 11 different kinds of ammunition in my non-restricted Swiss Arms rifle. We also shot several of these through my 14.5" LMT AR to compare the loss of velocity due to a shorter barrel length. All groups were shot from a bench at 100 yards. Data gathered from the LMT will be posted in red. The rifle was rested on the magazine and the stock was supported by a sand bag.

IMG_0577.jpg

Swiss Arms Classic Green (1 in 10 twist, 20.8" barrel) with ACOG TA31F (Green chevron reticule)

Winchester 55gr PSP

Velocity in fps.
3006
2953
3158
3079
3014
3163
3095
(3x error)

Low 2953
High 3163
Mean Average 3067
Standard Deviation 73.6
Max Spread 210

Hornady 55gr V-Max

2916
2961
2972
2914
2988
2947
2990
2924
2962
2925

Low 2914
High 2990
Mean Average 2950
Standard Deviation 27.5
Max Spread 76

Unfortunately I have the memory of a goldfish sometimes, and I can't remember which target I shot at, so these groups ended up on top of each other. I didn't keep the target, but all 20 shots from both brands of ammo covered about 4". Not great, but acceptable for 20 shots with 2 different brands of ammo. If I had to guess, I would say that the Winchester grouped about 3"-3.5", and the Hornady around 2.5".

Remington 55gr PSP

3047
2946
2984
2918
3078
3103
2948
3004
2948
2948

Low 2918
High 3078
Mean Average 2992
Standard Deviation 60.3
Max Spread 160

DSC_0019-1.jpg

The grouping was just under 3" which was one of the less impressive groups.

MFS 55gr FMJ

2978
2778
2754
2809
2865
2913
2846
2895
2840
2776

Low 2754
High 2978
Mean Average 2844
Standard Deviation 67.5
Max Spread 224

DSC_0016-1.jpg

Notice that 6 of the rounds grouped quite tightly (around 1"), but the remaining 4 brought the group out to around 4". This is likely due to the high variation in max spread.

MFS 55gr FMJ, 14.5" LMT

2718
2636
2678
2673
2630
2636
2673
2711
2706
2665

Low 2630
High 2718
Mean Average 2673
Standard Deviation 30.4
Max Spread 112

To be honest, the results of this comparison really surprised me. I was expecting the MFS to be much less consistent in the AR (I shot the Swiss Arms group first) as it was quite inconsistent in the Swiss Arms.

Remington UMC 55gr FMJ

2990
2999
2937
2934
2972
3015
2905
2956
2887
2988

Low 2887
High 3015
Mean Average 2958
Standard Deviation 39.9
Max Spread 128

DSC_0017-3.jpg

One thing I noticed about this group is that by removing the outermost round, the group shrinks from 3" to around 2". Based on this, I'd say that you can expect about 2 MOA with this ammo.

Remington UMC 55gr FMJ, 14.5" LMT

2789
2754
2759
2713
2742
2816
2771
2747
2705
2761

Low 2705
High 2816
Mean Average 2756
Standard Deviation 31.1
Max Spread 111

Hornady 60gr TAP

2868
2916
2899
2840
2893
2914
2866
2898
2865
2886

Low 2840
High 2916
Mean Average 2894
Standard Deviation 39.0
Max Spread 76

DSC_0020-1.jpg

I was a little disappointed with the 3" grouping I got from the 60gr TAP; however, it was one of the last groups that I shot, and I had been shooting for around 3 hours at that time, so I doubt it was as good as it could be. Next time I go out, I'll have to redo this group when I can do better.

M193 55gr Ball (1970's production)

3029
3101
3115
3030
3091
3038
3073
3055
3091
3090

Low 3029
High 3115
Mean Average 3071
Standard Deviation 29.6
Max Spread 86

DSC_0015-1.jpg

Removing the obvious flyer, the M193 55gr Ball shot a solid 2". The M193 proved to be quite consistent and accurate in the Swiss Arms.

M193 55gr Ball, LMT 14.5"

2933
2916
2823
2878
2903
2873
2835
(only 7 shots fired)

Low 2823
High 2933
Mean Average 2880
Standard Deviation 37.7
Max Spread 110

Although the M193 was relatively consistent in the LMT, it appeared to fare better in the longer barrel of the Swiss Arms.

Hornady 75gr TAP

2560
2570
2530
2582
2586
2607
2543
2573
2600
2584

Low 2530
High 2607
Mean Average 2574
Standard Deviation 22.8
Max Spread 77

DSC_0021-2.jpg

This was one of the most surprising results I had all day. As my rifle had a 1 on 10" twist, I was not expecting anything resembling a group from the 75gr TAP. At around 3", it's definitely not suited to this rifle, but it at least isn't terrible.

Remington Premier 55gr Accutip

2964
2961
2941
2935
2919
2938
2895
2943
2969
2930

Low 2895
High 2969
Mean Average 2940
Standard Deviation 21.1
Max Spread 74

DSC_0018.jpg

The Accutip appears to be quite a good load in the Swiss Arms. Although the entire group is 3", there appear to be several rounds that could be considered fliers. Removing these gives a group of 8 shots in just under 1.5". Like with the 60gr TAP, I shot this group later in the day, and could likely do better at a later date.

Federal Premium 60gr Nosler Partition

2914
2925
2910
2933
2932
2937
2916
2923
2930
2928

Low 2910
High 2937
Mean Average 2925
Standard Deviation 8.5
Max Spread 27

DSC_0014-1.jpg

The group here was quite fascinating. 5 shots are under an inch, and then the other 5 spread the group out to slightly over 2 inches. I'm willing to bet that the 5 really close shots were my first 5 shots, and then the other 5 are spread out after the reload. This likely demonstrates parralax issues with the ACOG that spring up with an inconsistent cheek weld. Still, this load was quite accurate and consistent. It certainly is premium ammunition.

Handloads
60gr Hornady V-Max
26.5gr BLC-(2)
Winchester brass
CCI Small Rifle Magnum Primer (450)
2.295" OAL

2894
2879
2848
2904
2830
2907
2817
2858
2862
2859

Low 2817
High 2907
Mean Average 2866
Standard Deviation 28.7
Max Spread 90

DSC_0012-1.jpg


Well, if this isn't a textbook example of a flier, then I don't know what is. Although I was very happy with the grouping (9 shots in 0.975" excluding the flier), I would have thought that my reloads would have been more consistent in muzzle velocity. Either way, it's a good group and really shows what the Swiss Arms is capable of.
 
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your handloads definitely are the show of good determination and work! for sure shows the value in reloading. thanks for the writeup!

mac
 
dizzy said:
I was thinking the same until the hand load group appeared. Thought maybe the driver was to blame, had to rethink.
Click to expand...

I'd agree with that to a point. The entire process of shooting and recording all of the data and groups took around 3 1/2 hours (it was rather tedious, and at the end I was looking forward to going home, lol). My handloads were one of the first strings I shot (after blasting off a few boxes of MFS to wake up :D). I ended up shooting the Hornady and Remington last, and they were some of the more disappointing groups. Next time I hit up the range, I'll have to re-shoot those groups when I'm not as tired, and maybe I'll be able to do a little better.

Edit: I'll also add that I have found my rifle is picky with ammo. It likes my handloads (and it better, because I've spent the summer developing them), but it can be fussy with factory ammo. I was actually disappointed with the rifle when I first got it because I couldn't get it to shoot as well as I was lead to believe it was capable of. Of course I'm happy with it now as I have it shooting well.
 
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Mine is very ammo sensitive. It doesn't like the 63 grain RUAG. I still have some factory ammo to try but so far American Eagle 62 had given me the best groups. About 1 moa or slightly less.

Thanks for posting your results. I plan on handloading for mine soon as well.

As for the mini14 target shooting as well as the Swiss. Yup it does. I have both. But the fit/finish along with features and ergonomics of the Swiss smoke the Ruger. Also the Ruger trigger before having it fixed was complete crap. I like my Swiss rifle better. But the Ruger shoots and Its a great bargain for an acurate semi auto.
 
I thought a 3000.00 rifle would shoot any ammo thighter than that, my Benelli MR-1 i think is less sensitive to ammo variation as everything will shoot within 2 inchs and sub moa with my handload, no pictures to show but try WWB 45 gr ammo it is a cheap ammo that give one inch steady, maybe your rifle will like them... Cheers. JP.
 
Perhaps you're not the greatest shot...or something.
This was shot at 100 yards with my Black Special with the bipod, and rear end supported only by my shoulder, with American Eagle 55gr FMJ (basic stuff).

IMG_8601-1.jpg
 
The OP had 10-shot groups, not 5 -

I think 10 shots are more indicative of actual "real life" accuracy which might explain why there are somewhat larger than the 5-shot groups shown above.

Could be wrong, but I have noticed that my 3-shot groups are always tighter than 5-shot, & my 5-shot groups are always tighter than 10 shot.
 
My rifle and I shoot similar to Styraks results, 1.25" to 1.5 " at 100m and 2" to 2.5" at 200m (the good 5 shot groups). Mine likes AE and White Box 55gr.
When I go for 10 round groups they open up, that's normal and depends alot on the shooter being able to hold the same position after the mag change.

Its also getting a bit old with people comparing everything to a benchrest rifle and trying to use it as such. These types of rifles were never meant for that and if it shot 2" @100m that's all it needs to do for you to hit your target out to 400m from a field position, which is what it was made for.

Way too much emphasis these days on "my black rifle needs to shoot sub moa" and not enough on developing rifleman skills, I see this at the range all the time. You can't carry the bench with you to the field, use it to sight in your rifle and then hit the dirt and at the very least practice your prone position and get good at it. Good marksmanship is what scores hits not the rifle.

AR180, I know that you can shoot. I saw the 300m groups you posted before and they were impressive, so not picking on you.
 
Not sure why the expectation that all ammo group well in the SAN. It was designed by the swiss for the swiss and with swiss ammo that works exceedingly well in it. With gp90 the rifle is awesome. Any thing else is a deviation of the original design and may or may not work well.

Its a bonus that its even exported to Canada.
 
Epoxy7 said:
Mine is very ammo sensitive. It doesn't like the 63 grain RUAG.
Click to expand...
That ammo is not accurate at all compared to the Ruag GP90, which was engineered for the rifle. HUGE difference. mine would group 2.5-3 inches at 100 with ruag white pack.

Looks like the op has dialed in some very decent loads for his. Obviously its the ammo not the shooter.
 
Styrak said:
Perhaps you're not the greatest shot...or something.
This was shot at 100 yards with my Black Special with the bipod, and rear end supported only by my shoulder, with American Eagle 55gr FMJ (basic stuff).
Click to expand...

Most of my 5 round groups look like that too... hell, I've shot 200 yard 5 shot groups that are smaller than that (1.2" with my hand loads)... but I find taking it to a 10 shot group adds about 40-50% to the group size of a 5 shot group.

greentips said:
Now I want to see the groupings of the LMT sitting side by side to the swiss arms.
Click to expand...

Sorry, no can do... the LMT is wearing Irons and I'm doing well if I can keep it at 4". It just wouldn't be a fair comparison.
 
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