Swiss arms Special Black, who has one, whats the word on them?

Canadiankeeper

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I'm looking into going to pick one up very soon.

From what I understand, the bipod it comes with causes POI shifts other then that 1-2 moa is the accuracy...

Non restricted, folding stock, flat top.

Looking to build a DMR rifle. Is this what you would go with? Should I look at the XCR-L's ?
(This "DMR" rifle will be for yotes out to 300 and plinking.)
 
I'm looking into going to pick one up very soon.

From what I understand, the bipod it comes with causes POI shifts other then that 1-2 moa is the accuracy...

Non restricted, folding stock, flat top.

Looking to build a DMR rifle. Is this what you would go with? Should I look at the XCR-L's ?
(This "DMR" rifle will be for yotes out to 300 and plinking.)

youll need a stock adapter for a good cheek weld on the stock
 
-It's a heavy gun.(if you plan an carrying it for long distances)
-the bipod can make the poi change by up to 4 inches
-model specific mags are expensive there decent though but limited to five rounds(not that it really matters the way things are going)
-real sig cheek riser is expensive.
-flattop models are not the easiest to flip as everyone wants the diopter model with rail.
-the Nea lower is of a different finish it's going to look terrible installed unless you creakote the whole rifle which will lower its resale.
-the nea lower also doesn't accommodate the sig style stock so you will maybe have to buy a dmr style ar 15 stock. Also they have some legal precidings with the Beowulf mags so I'm not even sure installing the lower is even worth it now. Unless you want more mag options through ar 15 style mags maybe in a shtf type scenario.
-gs designs adapter requires mag modifications to p mags.
- not terribly accurate for price.
-trigger is not replaceable (to my knowledge)


The good things are it's
- solid reliable quality rifle
- iron sights are amazing best sights on a black rifle period (if you get them I guess)
-good quality fit and finish
-proven platform
-good mag design
-nice trigger
-trigger guard flips to the side for gloves.
-built in bi pod is kind of handy and nice.
-Herron carbine is nicely balanced
-I like the green black is just ok.

Unless it's something you just have to have there is better options for what your using it for. I mainly keep mine because I really don't need optics with the diopter sights and I like them they feel great.
 
Get the new apc from wolverine instead

Just looking at it, I can tell the stock will b too low for me... Mind you so will the Special Black

-It's a heavy gun.(if you plan an carrying it for long distances)
-the bipod can make the poi change by up to 4 inches
-model specific mags are expensive there decent though but limited to five rounds(not that it really matters the way things are going)
-real sig cheek riser is expensive.
-flattop models are not the easiest to flip as everyone wants the diopter model with rail.
-the Nea lower is of a different finish it's going to look terrible installed unless you creakote the whole rifle which will lower its resale.
-the nea lower also doesn't accommodate the sig style stock so you will maybe have to buy a dmr style ar 15 stock. Also they have some legal precidings with the Beowulf mags so I'm not even sure installing the lower is even worth it now. Unless you want more mag options through ar 15 style mags maybe in a shtf type scenario.
-gs designs adapter requires mag modifications to p mags.
- not terribly accurate for price.
-trigger is not replaceable (to my knowledge)


The good things are it's
- solid reliable quality rifle
- iron sights are amazing best sights on a black rifle period (if you get them I guess)
-good quality fit and finish
-proven platform
-good mag design
-nice trigger
-trigger guard flips to the side for gloves.
-built in bi pod is kind of handy and nice.
-Herron carbine is nicely balanced
-I like the green black is just ok.

Unless it's something you just have to have there is better options for what your using it for. I mainly keep mine because I really don't need optics with the diopter sights and I like them they feel great.

Damn, I mean ive been flipping around rifles trying to find a nice NonR semi auto for yote smacking that gives me decent ammo to make punching paper fun still.

I really wanted a "DMR" style rifle. How is the accuracy on the XCR-L HB's ?

How is it for parts? How hard would it be to find a railed metal/aluminum hand guard ? Or different stock or stock adaptor ?

I 100% love the reliability of a rifle that has been on the market for a long time. Is mil spec and proven by years of sales. Hence why I was leaning towards it.
1-2 moa is about all you will get from most factory semi auto rifles. So I mean, I'm cool with that.

The only reason I don't get a tavor is I like shooting off a bipod and having the DMR style lol. Mind you with a tavor ( I have shot one) they balance well I could shoot just as well from elbows.

Weight isn't an issue, huck a sling on it... Why not a M305 then?! Well because Onterrible caliber limitations. so 223 is where I'm at.
 
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I had a black special flat top and the Swiss Arms is a beautiful piece of machinery no doubt. I expected it to be more accurate than it was though and I traded it for another rifle.
 
I had a black special flat top and the Swiss Arms is a beautiful piece of machinery no doubt. I expected it to be more accurate than it was though and I traded it for another rifle.

What did you trade it for ? I'm not expecting accuracy to be sub moa. With good ammo around 1-2 inches will suffice, I'm expecting this rifle to last as long as I do with no hiccups.



ALSO my LGS is asking 4100. I mean, there are a fair amount of options for NR semi auto I think this one is one of the top $ ones.
 
What did you trade it for ? I'm not expecting accuracy to be sub moa. With good ammo around 1-2 inches will suffice, I'm expecting this rifle to last as long as I do with no hiccups.



ALSO my LGS is asking 4100. I mean, there are a fair amount of options for NR semi auto I think this one is one of the top $ ones.

Too expensive for what it is, yes I did get about 1.5 moa with it though but expected better for the price. Part of the Swiss went for a Cadex bolt rifle in .308. If you just want 1-2 moa, there are far less expensive options imo.
 
Too expensive for what it is, yes I did get about 1.5 moa with it though but expected better for the price. Part of the Swiss went for a Cadex bolt rifle in .308. If you just want 1-2 moa, there are far less expensive options imo.

I know, I'm struggling with the DMR style though. A lot of my gut is saying get a tavor for half the price... Still a mil spec rifle that will preform.

I just love the DMR style! lmao
 
where can i still buy a new sg 550 or pe90 right now?

Gobles in London has one. I'm second guessing myself, handling one of my bolt guns I am thinking about selling right now... May just ditch the entire thing I have a half MOA bolt gun doing me just fine. Gota ride this DMR bug out I think.
 
i personally have a rem 700 5r that's well under half moa with custom loads. but i'd like a NR semi auto sub moa too that's why i'm looking at these sg550. i guess if you don't mind paying for a 308 i got lots of friends who has the m305 or m1a with sage ebr stock that shoots super well.
 
As a DMR, look into the HK SL8. That will give you great accuracy out of the box. Reliable, and likely under budget.

have, the ergo's simply don't work for me hahah.

Cant really fit my hand very well. Cheek positioning is NOT able to align with an optic. I have played with the idea but I cant source parts to switch the terrible ergos up
 
have, the ergo's simply don't work for me hahah.

Cant really fit my hand very well. Cheek positioning is NOT able to align with an optic. I have played with the idea but I cant source parts to switch the terrible ergos up

There are spacers that you can get to move the cheek weld up and extend the length of pull as you like. I think that even if you have to source the spacers through a round-about way, such as ordering from HK or importing, you will still be under budget.

One of the forum members
I believe can cut the thumb-hole stock into a pistol-grip and weld the plastic neatly so that it doesn't look like it was done with a disposable cigarette lighter. Even if you also need this work done, you will still be under budget.
 
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The xcr l is very reliable and easy to change out the stock with an adapter and ar stock, lots of parts available, the handguard is metal and can get keymod or rails. I'd recommended keymod. Can usually pick one up cheapish on the ee. I'll even sell mine for under 2k shipped. The only thing is accuracy is probably going to be about 2 moa
 
youll need a stock adapter for a good cheek weld on the stock

-It's a heavy gun.(if you plan an carrying it for long distances)
-the bipod can make the poi change by up to 4 inches
-model specific mags are expensive there decent though but limited to five rounds(not that it really matters the way things are going)
-real sig cheek riser is expensive.
-flattop models are not the easiest to flip as everyone wants the diopter model with rail.
-the Nea lower is of a different finish it's going to look terrible installed unless you creakote the whole rifle which will lower its resale.
-the nea lower also doesn't accommodate the sig style stock so you will maybe have to buy a dmr style ar 15 stock. Also they have some legal precidings with the Beowulf mags so I'm not even sure installing the lower is even worth it now. Unless you want more mag options through ar 15 style mags maybe in a shtf type scenario.
-gs designs adapter requires mag modifications to p mags.
- not terribly accurate for price.
-trigger is not replaceable (to my knowledge)


The good things are it's
- solid reliable quality rifle
- iron sights are amazing best sights on a black rifle period (if you get them I guess)
-good quality fit and finish
-proven platform
-good mag design
-nice trigger
-trigger guard flips to the side for gloves.
-built in bi pod is kind of handy and nice.
-Herron carbine is nicely balanced
-I like the green black is just ok.

Unless it's something you just have to have there is better options for what your using it for. I mainly keep mine because I really don't need optics with the diopter sights and I like them they feel great.

Ok so much nonsense in this thread that it is difficult where to start, and I hate picking on people, but these two posts really stand out for me.

If you are looking at getting a flat top model, there is no need for a cheek riser - just get a decent scope with the appropriate height rings and you are set.
If you are planning on shooting 'yotes at 300m, I'm guessing a decent variable in the 3-9 power or there abouts is probably where you're headed.

The next bit of attributes:
- poi shift with the OEM bipod: simple fix; don't use it. Mount a Harris or similar up near the barrel trunion if you are set on bi-pod use. (You'll have poi shift with anything else too, unless it mounted to a float tube).
- it's heavy : no, not really any heavier than a similar rifle of equal size and use. The regular SA flat top rifle without it's OEM bipod fixed is 8lbs 6oz.
- model specific mags are expensive: factory OEM mags are not cheap, but they are also bomb-proof and dead nuts reliable. Dominion mags are Chinese knock-offs, cost $30 each and are still dead nuts reliable. STANAG mags and their method of securing in rifle receivers blow in comparison. You will NEVER have a bolt ride-over-round failure with a SA mag if the mag is attached to the gun, unlike a STANAG.
- sig cheek riser is expensive : moot, as you won't need the bloody thing in the first place.
- flat top model isn't easy to flip? - wtf? :HR:
- NEA lower? Skip it, and keep it OEM. The only people with hard-ones for STANAG mags are neckbeard wannabes.
- GS design mag mod requires mods to PMags - who gives a sh!t? Stick with O-E-motherf&ckin'-M mags (orthechineseknockoffdominionmags).
- NOT TERRIBLY ACCURATE FOR THE PRICE: whooooboy. 10 rounds into a 10cmx10cm square at 300m guaranteed. Most guns I've seen will beat that like a red headed step child. I had one test target that is 2.25" group (10 rounds) at 300m. If you suck at shooting, don't get a Swiss Arms, because it will quickly point out how bad you blow.
- trigger is not replaceable: no, it isn't (unless you get a sniper version installed) and that is a good thing.
It comes standard with a match grade two-stage service trigger set to around 5.5lbs first stage breaking at around 6 lbs. as far as triggers in service type guns goes, this is one of the best there is- from the factory.


What I can't understand is guys are tripping over themselves pumping up the ACR and the B&T AP that are going for, what? $3600, $4000 when there are guys bumping their F/S ads in the EE trying to sell slightly used Sigs for $2600-3000?

Get a Swiss Arms, you won't regret it.
 
Just looking at it, I can tell the stock will b too low for me... Mind you so will the Special Black



Damn, I mean ive been flipping around rifles trying to find a nice NonR semi auto for yote smacking that gives me decent ammo to make punching paper fun still.

I really wanted a "DMR" style rifle. How is the accuracy on the XCR-L HB's ?

How is it for parts? How hard would it be to find a railed metal/aluminum hand guard ? Or different stock or stock adaptor ?

I 100% love the reliability of a rifle that has been on the market for a long time. Is mil spec and proven by years of sales. Hence why I was leaning towards it.
1-2 moa is about all you will get from most factory semi auto rifles. So I mean, I'm cool with that.

The only reason I don't get a tavor is I like shooting off a bipod and having the DMR style lol. Mind you with a tavor ( I have shot ...

You won't have an issue with the stock being too low if you go with the flat top. For a red dot the Hensoldt RSA / Zeiss z point is a perfect fit. Get the right height rings with a suitable scope works great. I have zeiss/warn quick release on mine. Do not us an AR single piece mount. Also red dots should be the very low variety (see above). Slap on cheek risers look Mickey Mouse. Try to avoid it.

You have to be careful where you put the handguard in the front bag. Closer to the magwell works best. I have gotten 1 moa with 62 American eagle red box. Trigger is ok. The rifle is solid but Ergos are dated.

Your least expensive option is a Ruger mini 14 target model in an archangel stock. Not really a black rifle but still a semi non restricted. Very DM like with that stock. Expect to need the trigger worked on. Stock one on mine sucked. A gunsmith worked on it and it's very nice now.

photo%2095_zpseobhjkzk.jpg


If I had read beltfeds post before typing I could have saved some time! Although a little rough on Dirty Mike and the boys. :p


I will also agree with the 3-9x scope. I had a 6.5-20x Conquest on mine and it was pretty good, although a bit too much scope for the rifle. It was a bit of a waste

This is what mine looks like now with a 3-9x Burris E1 (great scope for the money!)

photo73_zpsltkrkavv.jpg


What it looked like with the Zeiss Conquest:

DSCN0014.jpg


Where the 6.5-20x scope ended up!! A much more suitable combination.

photo%2059_zpsygk1dx7k.jpg


The ACR DMR and ACP are interesting. But they are the brand new toy. It's unknown at this time exactly what they are. IE how they will shoot, stack up etc. Although I would tend to favour the ACR DM for the OP's needs. Keep in mind early adopting can be expensive. The flip side of this is that those going to the newest and greatest often create some good opportunities for deals on the last model firearm. TAR21 vs X95 for example.
 
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