T 81 M first accuracy impressions updated with a ten round group

[JBD]

Weather was not ideal -1 Celsius wind 20 kmh gusts to 37 kmh. T 81 M folder stock. So using stock iron sights front supported by bags no rear support. Shooting norinco white box and norinco red box. I tried Hornady black but it did not group at all. All shot at 100 yards






So some observations. I struggled with the sight picture. I was shooting at typing paper I could sort of put it in target in the middle of the front sight but I could not easily decern that my front post was in the exact middle of my rear sight. I could not get a decent rest position as the large magazine tended to interfere with the bags. The rear I could not support. The shape of the folder well forget about it. My experience with this ammo is at best 2.5 MOA and I was getting about 4 MOA . Today so this one was more accurate than the t 81 SR and more accurate than the SKS.

 

[firebat]

Looks about right. Optics and rear support would've helped to shrink the groups quite a bit.

 

[st1264]

I can barely use Irons anymore... don't know why I bought one of these. It's not the irons, it's my eyes... bifocal type old eye problems.

As long as the Irons are better than the SKS, I'll be able to use them. I've had better luck with a rear Peep site which seems to help.

Those folders are cool but the hold and cheekweld will be an issue. The short 5rd or 10rd mags might help things for shooting with a sandbag.

 

[gristle111]

50% of the hits within a 1.78 inch diameter at 100 meters. type 81 accuracy design criteria. Looks right on spec. Shoot 10 shot groups and see what you get.

 

[nbd]

looks like minute of man. good.

 

[rugbydave]

50% of the hits within a 1.78 inch diameter at 100 meters. type 81 accuracy design criteria. Looks right on spec. Shoot 10 shot groups and see what you get.

Yeah, 10 shot groups give you a better overall picture of the precision capability of a carbine, imo.

 

[Butcherbill]

Try using a 4”-5” triangle as a aiming point/bullseye, orient the triangle with the point down so you have an easily repeatable point of aim to line up with the top of the front sight post.

 

[firebat]

Best way (at least for me) is to do it the way described in Soviet manual - target should be a black rectangle 25cm width X 35cm height placed on a white background at 100m, aiming point is the bottom edge of that rectangle, shooting either benched or prone supported. 25cm is the same width as the front post at 100m, so it's easy to see if you are aiming off-center horizontally. And white background will be seen as a clear gap between the target and front post, if you are aiming lower. I tried that, makes the whole process very repeatable.

 

[Ipscshooters]

By the looks of the OPs target, the LMG barrel, being thicker and everything does not improve the accuracy of these one bit when using irons

Same results I get when shooting my 2017 first Gen type 81

I've got the mlok forend I haven't installed yet , going to have to get to that and throw on a vortex spitfire 5X and see what kinda accuracy I get

I've never been one for iron sights, so it could be me

 

[scianna54]

Does not really mean much unless you have Chronographed the ammo first.

 

[rgwhitman]

Old eyes and iron sights are challenging. I have found best results are using my "computer " glasses which have a extended focal clarity. About perfect for using an aperture sight.

 

[JBD]

The wind died down today a lot less horizontal spread this ten round group is only 1.25 inches wide. Vertical spread 3.75. Shot at 100 yards today with norinco red box. The rifle may be more accurate than I initially thought. I am using more of a combat hold putting the front sight where I want my bullets to land rather than a 6 o clock hold. I can judge the middle of the paper with my front sight however my vertical is just a guess. Next time I will try a 6 o clock hold which should help reduce my vertical aiming error.

 

[05RAV]

The wind died down today a lot less horizontal spread this ten round group is only 1.25 inches wide. Vertical spread 3.75. Shot at 100 yards today with norinco red box. The rifle may be more accurate than I initially thought. I am using more of a combat hold putting the front sight where I want my bullets to land rather than a 6 o clock hold. I can judge the middle of the paper with my front sight however my vertical is just a guess. Next time I will try a 6 o clock hold which should help reduce my vertical aiming error.View attachment 758857

IMHO this is a very good result with Norinco red box ammo and iron sights. This ammo is barely passable. I've been shooting it from my 1MOA Howa Mini Action and Ruger Ranch, using scope, and have been getting averages of 2-3MOA for 5 shot strings. Statistically speaking, a standard deviation for like 5-10, 5-shot strings, is about 0.5-0.7" at 100y. Sometimes, in one string I get 0.8MOA and the next is like 2MOA. Pretty inconsistent cartridges. Indeed, it would be advisable to measure muzzle velocities to see what the spread of velocities is from a cartridge-to-cartridge. Unfortunately, I don't have a chronograph. I've been looking for some time for the Garmin Chronograph but the price doesn't justify a purchase for sporadic muzzle velocity measurements.
Tomorrow, I'm going to my club in order to test my Type 81M Underfolder but I can only do it at 25y. The 100y range is under re-construction till the end of April. So, we will see.

 

[Joel]

Isn't that pretty much all you can expect out of them with any ammo, even with an optic on it?

 

[fritzhanzel]

Isn't that pretty much all you can expect out of them with any ammo, even with an optic on it?

Go to youtube and look for ammunition testing on AK47. Quite a difference. Most accurate and consistent is Barnaul.

 

[firebat]

Go to youtube and look for ammunition testing on AK47. Quite a difference. Most accurate and consistent is Barnaul.

My fixed stock SE with optics shoots repeatable ~3.5-3.75" 10-shot groups at 100m with Barnaul

 

[05RAV]

Isn't that pretty much all you can expect out of them with any ammo, even with an optic on it?

Hard to say. My both, Howa Mini Action and Ruger Ranch shoot regularly 1-1.3MOA and sometimes even sub-MOA with the PMC Bronze FMJ, PPU SP RN Rifleline, Sellier&Bellot SP and Barnaul. Theoretically, I'd expect the Type 81M to shoot around 2-3MOA with better ammo and an optic on it. But I might be wrong. I'll check Barnaul tomorrow at 25y. My 100y is under re-construction.

 

[Joel]

Go to youtube and look for ammunition testing on AK47. Quite a difference. Most accurate and consistent is Barnaul.

Yeah but thats an AK47. Quite a wide variety of AKs in which to test ammo.

My fixed stock SE with optics shoots repeatable ~3.5-3.75" 10-shot groups at 100m with Barnaul

So like some of those and some 5" groups as well?

Hard to say. My both, Howa Mini Action and Ruger Ranch shoot regularly 1-1.3MOA and sometimes even sub-MOA with the PMC Bronze FMJ, PPU SP RN Rifleline, Sellier&Bellot SP and Barnaul. Theoretically, I'd expect the Type 81M to shoot around 2-3MOA with better ammo and an optic on it. But I might be wrong. I'll check Barnaul tomorrow at 25y. My 100y is under re-construction.

2 MOA Type 81 would be a unicorn. From videos, magazines and posts this sounds really representative

https://calibremag.ca/type-81-tested/

The most ammo that delivered the smallest group was the polymer-tipped 123 grain Hornady SST; the largest group came from some old lacquer-coated Czech surplus. Neither delivered sniper-grade accuracy, however: the old Czech crate ammo turned in a 5.43 MOA group, and the SST 4.28 MOA. Strangely, the mean radius of the Czech ammo, at 1.8 inches, made it one of the better performers: essentially, mean radius predicts how far the average bullet will deviate from the centre of the group and as such is actually a better indicator of how well a properly zeroed rifle will shoot than the more familiar minute-of-angle group measurement. The best mean radius we saw was 1.63 inches, using the Winchester Power Points; the American Eagle FMJ, at the opposite end of the spectrum, had both the worst mean radius, at 2.14 inches, and the second worst grouping, at 5.37 inches. Precision rifles, these are not.

Not that its that bad...A 5-10 shot group from an M1 with service ammo was probably 4"

 

[firebat]

So like some of those and some 5" groups as well?

That's more like Norinco Red Box groupings. Never had 5" groups with Barnaul, but Norinco Red Box is a different story..

 

[Joel]

That's more like Norinco Red Box groupings. Never had 5" groups with Barnaul, but Norinco Red Box is a different story..

Cool! And you are not alone on that one....stuff patterns.

The rough ejection from a bolt gun is a bonus haha