Tacticool and Non Restricted

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QOR

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I've been a long time lurker and I've decided to start posting more. I'm a life-long shooter and I currently serve with the CF in Toronto.....not the most military or gun friendly town on earth:(

OK guys, I'm looking for some advise from those who either own or have fired the firearms I'm about to talk about. I'm about to be moving around alot and I have no interest in going through the hassel of gun clubs and constant badgering from the Gov't, I want something simple. I'm currently considering buying a new rifle to train with but I'm after something that won't break the bank, is non-restricted, and can easily be accessorized. So here's the list.....and before you say it...yes I already own an AR. I've done research on all of these and I'm just looking for some opinions from those who may be in the same boat. Anymore ideas would be great too, but keep in mind my tastes lean to the tactical side of the house.


Norc M-305
PROS- cheap, variety of rails on the market, changable mags, not quite that obsolete.

CONS-Needs expensive upgrades (barrel, trigger job ect...) Stocks seem to be rather pricey.

VZ-858
PROS- A nice stick it to the Liberals kinda look, not a bad price for what you get, rails are starting to come out,changeable mags, CHEAP ammo!

CONS- Questionable quality, above mentioned rails seem to be pricey(for what you get) Once accessorized I may as well get another AR.

SKS (all tacticooled up)
PROS- CHEAP, CHEAP, CHEAP ammo!

CONS- Can't change mags, questionable quality, obsolete.

AR-180
We all know the pros and cons of that....and I'm starting to get tired of typing:mad:

Any ideas you guys can throw my way would be awsome and thanx for the help.....stay low, shoot straight.
 
Black Special or similar is always a big hit.

FS2000 restricted due to barrel length (I think?), HK SL8, Robarm M96 (used only right now), XCR when they show up.
 
XCR was number one on my list but the thing is...I like to buy stuff that exists. I also read a bad review of it, I'll try to find the link.

Thanks for the suggestions.
 
I'd say XCR fits your requirement, but it will be some time before it trickles into Canadian market. All the reviews in AR.com are favourable (if not great). I'd love to own Non-Rest M96, but production's halted for the time being...
AR-180's great, and it would be greater when (and if) Armedsask finishes his billet lower.
I don't know about pricing, but I hear Non-Rest version of Tavor is coming our way. If the price is right, it could be a cool little rifle.
 
I can tell you that the Norc M-14s/M-305 does not need expensive upgrades.
I have an older one it came with the ugly fake flash hider I put a real one on
and made my own match op rod spring guide and this rifle will shoot nice
groups all day. My Grandfather bought a new one this spring we have done
nothing to it and it shoots great.
 
Personally, I wouldn't call an M14 a black rifle. The M14 was developed quite a while before the term black rifle was even thought up. If you want a real non-res black rifle, you're pretty much stuck with an AR180B. If you want a military-esque rifle cheap, go with the CZ858. Otherwise, get a restricted AR15 for a mid-range price or a non-restricted PE90 or G36 for the high end price range.

Thanks for the correction Robert. :p
 
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For non restricted hunting I would get the M-305. The M14 rifle is one of the ###iest rifles ever made IMHO.

For more fun stuff and plinking get the 180B. It is blacker than the M305 and is kinda similar to your AR.
 
Well maybe my experience can help, here's a rundown of the rifles I shoot (owned all of them usually multiples and still own many):

AR180B: True black rifle, accuracy decent for enough for sporting use, feels clunky and to me, cheap. I'm not a fan, but this isn't to say it's not a good rifle, they're reputed to be tough. Sold mine quickly.

AR15: Great rifles, have had dozens, love them, but restricted. Down to just a few for that reason, and honestly, I don't really like the feel as much as the others on cycling/function. I shoot them poorest out of the group, but very accurate rifles.

M96: GREAT rifles, ultra fast take down, stainless steel, left side charging (hand doesn't leave the pistol grip for righties). Solidly built, good sporting accuracy.

PE90: The cadillac. Love em, my fav black rifle. Like everything about it, even the weight, negligible recoil as a result, ultra accurate for a semi, great sights, good mags, solid construction.

M305: Newer M305's are amazing, great out of the box, two of mine shoot 1.5 MOA with iron sight out of the box! Can hit 12" rocks at 600 yards slinged up kneeling with my favorite, they are THE bargain auto.

58/858: An SKS to me, a funky SKS. Good rifles, a little quirky, but decent. Look neat. A yugo SKS puts one to shame in my opinion.

Yugo SKS: Everyone should have one :D Awesome quality, never quits reliability, good sights. Nice balance and feel too with the longer Euro stock.

SKS-D: Functional, mags work fine, changes a little frustrating due to the sticky mag catch. Slower to reload than a standard SKS, no bolt hold open on last shot, mediocre but functional quality.

VZ52/57: Good rifles, basically on par with yugo SKS, though I prefer the yugo. HEAVY. Some interesting engineering.

Never owned an SL8, don't float my boat, barrel's too heavy for my liking and don't appreciate the cracking issue, but I hear they're good rifles.


Out of these, I recommend the M14S and PE90 bar none. :)
 
Well I own 3 VZeds, one 858 and two 58's. Sold my AR. I love these. Cheap to shoot, accurate and reliable. I can hit a 10" gong at 600m with the 858. I've abused my VDeds (droped them in the mud, not cleaned them after a month, etc.) and it has never missed a beat. Got a quad rail, HK pdw style stock and replica Aimpoint on the 858 and it is just as good, if not better, than my AR was. It is hands down a steal. I love my Nork 305 but it cost me $1300 to get where I wanted it. The decked out 858 cost me $1100. Both are good, but the 858 is the better bang for your buck... unless you can find a 305 for under $500.
 
+1 on the SKS-D. Nothing wrong with the rifle at all. The lack of a hold-open is made up for by the fact that it takes AK mags and is very reliable. I've never had issue with mine and i've gone through a crate and a half of ammo.

My Norc M-14 was good right out of box. The only mod I feel needs to be done is to replace the flash hider with one that has a bayo lug to make it look more "Scary"

My CZ-858 is my 2ed Fav Rifle. I was well worth the money. The whole "Gremlin" thing was a pain in the ass but it's fixed now and if it never happened I wouldn't have got my parts kit with the SWEET wood furniture.

AR-180B is my Baby, I can't afford rifles priced higher than this right now so for me it's the Crown Jewel. I had to mod the selector to fit on the right side cause I'm a lefty and the damn thing would dig into my hand but that's the only issue for me. I also got a bayo lug and an M4 stock put on it but I just thought it needed the extra "evil".
 
RobertMcC said:
CZ makes the 858, VZ makes the VZ58.
Click to expand...

Huh?? I throught Vz. is short for Vzor, which means Model in Czech.......

Both 858 and Samopal Vzor 1958 (Submachine Gun, Model 1958, the official designation in Czech military) are built by Česká Zbrojovka, located in the town of Uherský Brod (CZ-UB).
 
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