I have been asked to set targets for a small clubs first Sporting clays shoot. I enjoy setting targets at different shoots that I go to and am always looking for information on how to better the presentations and more so avoid the impossible presentation. I would like to ask the beginner shooters out there what they have come across at various shoots that they thought was outrages or unfair. Also what they liked most about the game.
Target setting Sporting Clays?
- Thread starter ranger7x
- Start date
Experienced shooters and beginner shooters both seem to complain a lot about presentations that are more a test of eye sight than shooting ability. Crossing mini targets at long distance or against back ground that makes them very difficult to see.
I have seen new shooters as well as experienced shooters walk away from the shooting stand and accept a zero instead of making an attempt.
Thanks for taking on this challenge. They will either love you or hate you after it is over.
I have seen new shooters as well as experienced shooters walk away from the shooting stand and accept a zero instead of making an attempt.
Thanks for taking on this challenge. They will either love you or hate you after it is over.
What frustrates me are birds that are hard to see or birds only seen for a brief moment respectively known as eye tests and short windows. I have no concern about long targets however a dependence on them leads me to conclude the target setter is a dunce who lacks the creativity to make a challenging course.
If it's a first shoot at a small club I'd assume that most of them haven't shot much sporting so I'd stay away from anything too challenging. No eye tests, short windows or targets beyond 40 yards. What you don't want to do is make the course so tough that they won't want to shoot sporting clays again. Also keep in mind sun position on the high presentations. Nothing worse than trying to shoot at target staring into the sun.
Most of the shooters will probably be familiar with skeet or trap so I'd have a couple of presentations that replicate those targets. But then I'd show them rabbits, teal, chondelles, battues, minis, high tower etc. so they can try targets they wouldn't see normally. I wouldn't do anything too goofy such as a presentation where the shooter starts from a sitting position to replicate a duck blind or poisoned birds where you lose points if you hit them. I think those are BS presentations.
Ultimately no matter what course is set you can't please everyone. But if anyone suggests your course was too easy ask them if they hit 100 straight. That tends to shut them up fast.
If it's a first shoot at a small club I'd assume that most of them haven't shot much sporting so I'd stay away from anything too challenging. No eye tests, short windows or targets beyond 40 yards. What you don't want to do is make the course so tough that they won't want to shoot sporting clays again. Also keep in mind sun position on the high presentations. Nothing worse than trying to shoot at target staring into the sun.
Most of the shooters will probably be familiar with skeet or trap so I'd have a couple of presentations that replicate those targets. But then I'd show them rabbits, teal, chondelles, battues, minis, high tower etc. so they can try targets they wouldn't see normally. I wouldn't do anything too goofy such as a presentation where the shooter starts from a sitting position to replicate a duck blind or poisoned birds where you lose points if you hit them. I think those are BS presentations.
Ultimately no matter what course is set you can't please everyone. But if anyone suggests your course was too easy ask them if they hit 100 straight. That tends to shut them up fast.
Thanks, this is excellent info. I was thinking of throwing most targets at 20-30 yards with lots of time for the pump guns to get the second shot.
I enjoy the challenge of target setting almost as much as shooting at them. They can love me or hate me after its over as long as I get some feed back so I can make the next course better.
I enjoy the challenge of target setting almost as much as shooting at them. They can love me or hate me after its over as long as I get some feed back so I can make the next course better.
One thing I like about shooting clays at our club is they make it a practice to include some fairly easy presentations so everyone can hit some, especially at the 100 bird fun shoots. It's important to the guys setting the course that everyone hits some birds. They are good about including a few difficult ones too. I didn't think of it, but I agree the idea of making it a vision test isn't a good one. It is nice to have a few long crossers, but they should be regular-sized birds. One of my favourite shots at Kamloops with mini's and midi's is a true pair, (one mini, one midi) going downhill in a ravine almost directly away from you. Visibility is good, but they are really moving. For some reason I just love this shot, not that I hit it all the time.
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Make sure you shoot your targets yourself before the day of the shoot, sometimes what looks easy is not easy to shoot . Try to even out your presentations left to right, incomers and out goers and high and low birds something for everyone. Do not forget the lefties in the crowd make sure the targets are presented so our left handed counterparts have a chance. The biggest thing I believe is give people targets to break beginners and experienced all want to see birds smash. Better off on the easy side so people go away happy tell their friends and come back I have never seen anyone run a course.(but I always dream)
justachip, you have said it bang on. Everyone enjoys breaking clay and it is breaking clay that will bring most back. In general that concept should not be sacrificed because a tiny few want to feel challenged. The hoa winner will probably come from that tiny group in spite of how difficult or fluffy the course is. Should there be a tie at the top, that is the time to make the elite shooter's prayers come true. Then bring on the challenging targets.
beretta boy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Orillia, Ontario
Many good comments above ... and might I add my "congratulations" to you as well for taking on the volunteer challenge of target setter.
From my own experaiance doing just what you are about to undertake, my recommendation is to use and set at least 50 percent "specialty" targets ... rabbitts, battues, minis & midis... and don't be afraid to mix-up two different targets from a station. "New" shooters really seemed to like things they haven't run into before like a mini nested under a standard target for a double, or a rabbit followed by a flyer for a following pair.
Chondelles, rabbitts. springing teal and battues can all be challenging to a new shooter ... so make sure the presentation is "shootable" ... adequate-to-long windows, short to moderate distance and back-off on the spring a little. Save the 6o yard screamers for later.
No matter what, the "cream rises to the top" ... so the best shooters will still prevail - but at the same time, you don't want to turn the new shooter off ... you wnat him back again, and again and again !
In setting up what amounted to a "fun-shoot" for a fund-raiser, we looked at trying to set a course that would generate a score averaging about 70% for all shooters. The best ( over 10 or so years) turned in winning scores in the 90's ( the highest was a 98, several 94'& 95's for HOA ) Even the most accomplished have trouble running a perfect
100 ... but if the new shooter can start out shooting in the 70% range, he/she won't be too discouraged.
Try to maintain "Sporting" targets ... "Skeet-in-the-Woods" isn't the way to go.
Have a good "average" shot go with you to actually "test" the target presentations, and pay extra special attention to both safety, muzzle directions and subsequent shot-fall. You don't want trap pesonnel or other shooters at adjacent or opposite stations being put in jeopardy.
Finally, many have found that setting targets and moving stations on a "regular shooting day" just doesn't work. There's just not enough time to get it all done right, tested, targets put-out, etc. before someone is in a hurry to shoot. Much better done on a different day all together. About every 3 - 4 weeks is time to change things up.
Nothing worse than "same-old, same-old" to drive the Sporting crowd away.
From my own experaiance doing just what you are about to undertake, my recommendation is to use and set at least 50 percent "specialty" targets ... rabbitts, battues, minis & midis... and don't be afraid to mix-up two different targets from a station. "New" shooters really seemed to like things they haven't run into before like a mini nested under a standard target for a double, or a rabbit followed by a flyer for a following pair.
Chondelles, rabbitts. springing teal and battues can all be challenging to a new shooter ... so make sure the presentation is "shootable" ... adequate-to-long windows, short to moderate distance and back-off on the spring a little. Save the 6o yard screamers for later.
No matter what, the "cream rises to the top" ... so the best shooters will still prevail - but at the same time, you don't want to turn the new shooter off ... you wnat him back again, and again and again !
In setting up what amounted to a "fun-shoot" for a fund-raiser, we looked at trying to set a course that would generate a score averaging about 70% for all shooters. The best ( over 10 or so years) turned in winning scores in the 90's ( the highest was a 98, several 94'& 95's for HOA ) Even the most accomplished have trouble running a perfect
100 ... but if the new shooter can start out shooting in the 70% range, he/she won't be too discouraged.
Try to maintain "Sporting" targets ... "Skeet-in-the-Woods" isn't the way to go.
Have a good "average" shot go with you to actually "test" the target presentations, and pay extra special attention to both safety, muzzle directions and subsequent shot-fall. You don't want trap pesonnel or other shooters at adjacent or opposite stations being put in jeopardy.
Finally, many have found that setting targets and moving stations on a "regular shooting day" just doesn't work. There's just not enough time to get it all done right, tested, targets put-out, etc. before someone is in a hurry to shoot. Much better done on a different day all together. About every 3 - 4 weeks is time to change things up.
Nothing worse than "same-old, same-old" to drive the Sporting crowd away.
I pretty much agree with what has been said, but I'll add my .02
Put in at least two stations that just about anybody can clean. Sure the top guys will do so, but if they miss one it will eat them up. Meanwhile the new guys can get some confidence building, even if they only bust 8 or 9 of the 10.
Keep most of the stations reasonably close. I find most of the courses I shoot, there are very few stations that need a modified choke. Most of it should be IC or skeet, so let that set your yardage. Of course one or two long birds are ok.
Try setting an incomer up from a long way out. It's not that hard of a bird as you can see it coming forever, and incomings are not that challenging, but it tests peoples patience to wait for it to get there.
If your setting teal, try to put them nearly straight up for an easy presentation, the more crossing they are the tougher they are.
Grab another guy when your setting up, so they can stand in the station while you make adjustments, or vice versa, setting the course can be a lot of fun.
I personally like shorter sight windows (not super short) but the targets better be full sized and highly visible.
As mentioned I don't find there to be much worse things then standing around because the guy in the stand can't see the birds. It's a waste of birds, and really slows things down, and I imagine if I'm frustrated watching it, the poor guy in the stand must be even worse off. Make sure birds are visible.
I also agree that I like to see lots of specialty targets. They don't have to be really hard presentations, just something different.
You can add quite a bit of challenge to a not so hard target by good use of cover. If you can make a target that disappears right where you would normally want to break it, then reappear. That can actually be harders on the better quicker shots. You can make it so the good shots are the guys who want to break it where the cover is, where the more novice shooters probably are not fast enough to do that, and would want to break it out in the open after the cover anyway. One of the best targets I saw for that was a rabbit that ran through an almost imperceptible dimple in the ground. It would run across nicely in the open, and just when you pulled the trigger it would drop out of sight for about 3 feet, then come back up, depending on bounces of course. I thought that was a very ingenious use of the terrain. If you just waited a half second longer they were easy targets out in the open.
Don't be afraid to make 20% of the course very challenging, but not impossible. You need something to separate the good shots out, and make them earn it. At least personally I don't find one or two challenging stations to be discouraging, by having a couple equally easy stations to compensate keeps the average joe from being discouraged.
If the course is being shot start to finish, as opposed to shotgun start, put an easy station early on to build confidence, and one or two at the end so guys get to end on a good note. People are more likely to come back if they run 15-20 of the last 20 birds then if they score 5-10 of the last 20 birds, even if they shoot the same score at the end of the day. It's good business to send people away happy with how the day ended, even if you beat them up a little in the middle.
Put in at least two stations that just about anybody can clean. Sure the top guys will do so, but if they miss one it will eat them up. Meanwhile the new guys can get some confidence building, even if they only bust 8 or 9 of the 10.
Keep most of the stations reasonably close. I find most of the courses I shoot, there are very few stations that need a modified choke. Most of it should be IC or skeet, so let that set your yardage. Of course one or two long birds are ok.
Try setting an incomer up from a long way out. It's not that hard of a bird as you can see it coming forever, and incomings are not that challenging, but it tests peoples patience to wait for it to get there.
If your setting teal, try to put them nearly straight up for an easy presentation, the more crossing they are the tougher they are.
Grab another guy when your setting up, so they can stand in the station while you make adjustments, or vice versa, setting the course can be a lot of fun.
I personally like shorter sight windows (not super short) but the targets better be full sized and highly visible.
As mentioned I don't find there to be much worse things then standing around because the guy in the stand can't see the birds. It's a waste of birds, and really slows things down, and I imagine if I'm frustrated watching it, the poor guy in the stand must be even worse off. Make sure birds are visible.
I also agree that I like to see lots of specialty targets. They don't have to be really hard presentations, just something different.
You can add quite a bit of challenge to a not so hard target by good use of cover. If you can make a target that disappears right where you would normally want to break it, then reappear. That can actually be harders on the better quicker shots. You can make it so the good shots are the guys who want to break it where the cover is, where the more novice shooters probably are not fast enough to do that, and would want to break it out in the open after the cover anyway. One of the best targets I saw for that was a rabbit that ran through an almost imperceptible dimple in the ground. It would run across nicely in the open, and just when you pulled the trigger it would drop out of sight for about 3 feet, then come back up, depending on bounces of course. I thought that was a very ingenious use of the terrain. If you just waited a half second longer they were easy targets out in the open.
Don't be afraid to make 20% of the course very challenging, but not impossible. You need something to separate the good shots out, and make them earn it. At least personally I don't find one or two challenging stations to be discouraging, by having a couple equally easy stations to compensate keeps the average joe from being discouraged.
If the course is being shot start to finish, as opposed to shotgun start, put an easy station early on to build confidence, and one or two at the end so guys get to end on a good note. People are more likely to come back if they run 15-20 of the last 20 birds then if they score 5-10 of the last 20 birds, even if they shoot the same score at the end of the day. It's good business to send people away happy with how the day ended, even if you beat them up a little in the middle.
Some of the best challenging shoots I ever competed in are the short range / deceptive angle type. As previously said it takes no skill to set a 'challenging' course that tests eyesight more than anything else.
Try to make use of the features - for example try to get the clays to follow a treeline which appears to be straight but is actually dropping slightly. Shooters not paying attention will miss over the top every time. Also try targets that look to be straight crossing but actually quarter away, this will test the shooters consistency.
Although they are fun to shoot, rabbit targets can be very unfair and unpredictable. Especially when there are some broken clays on the the ground they can jump all over the place!
Try to make use of the features - for example try to get the clays to follow a treeline which appears to be straight but is actually dropping slightly. Shooters not paying attention will miss over the top every time. Also try targets that look to be straight crossing but actually quarter away, this will test the shooters consistency.
Although they are fun to shoot, rabbit targets can be very unfair and unpredictable. Especially when there are some broken clays on the the ground they can jump all over the place!
Thanks everyone again for all the useful information. I will be putting it to use this Sunday in Vanderhoof. 10 stations with rabbits, minis, battues, and midies plus regular targets, for 100 targets. I have all day Sat to do set up. This should give me lots of time to make some fun presentations. Relativly easy targets with a good look to them.
Myself and another guy run the sporting clays at Otter Valley Rod & Gun Club which is loacated near Straffordville Ontario Canada. We do not have a target that is more than 40 yards away. We run with a mix of regular targets ( orange, green, black ) midies, minies, rabbits and sometimes battues. Our feed back from shooters that shoot at number of different sporting clay course is that we have a true hunters course with a good mix of easy and challenging targets. Non-members are welcome to shoot at our club, Sporting Clays is held on the first and thrid sunday of each month sign up starts at 8:30 am and goes to approx. 10 am shooting starts at 9 am. Otter Valley Rod & Gun Club is located at 9908 Plank Rd. between the villages of Eden & Straffordville ( south of Tillsonburg on highway 19 ) Ontario Canada
