Taurus Judge...removing the rifling?

jeffcarr88

jeffcarr88

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Hey CGN,

I have always wanted a Taurus Judge...for no other reason then they are cool (to me!).

Anyways...I know due to the rifling they are not the best shooters, with birdshot, producing more of a doughnut shaped group then a complete circular pattern. I have no interest to shoot .45LC outta it.

SO

If I remove the barrels rifling are get a MOD or FULL choke installed...if should shoot tighter groups and have better distance...correct?

Thanks,

- J
 
Sounds like a cool project for a Canadian gun.

They make them with rifling because of an American law. If they sold it (in USA) as a smooth-bore, it would change the classification from hand-gun to short-barreled shotgun. Short-barreled shotguns have all kinds of red-tape in The States.

But under Canadian law; The legal classification would remain the same. (restricted firearm)
 
FALover said:
Would removing the rifling reduce the barrel wall and possibly allow unsafe conditions to arise. With such a short barrel for shot shells I do not believe that any choke will make a difference.
Click to expand...

The rifling is not deep...especially on the "Judge" line, done so on purpose. A choke maters more/effects more about the shot pattern 10x more then the barrel length does.
 
Dexter Morgan said:
Sounds like a cool project for a Canadian gun.

They make them with rifling because of an American law. If they sold it (in USA) as a smooth-bore, it would change the classification from hand-gun to short-barreled shotgun. Short-barreled shotguns have all kinds of red-tape in The States.

But under Canadian law; The legal classification would remain the same. (restricted firearm)
Click to expand...

$200 tax stamp for them.

Americans (depending on state) can pretty much own anything. Sometimes it requires a $5 tax stamp (AOW I believe) or a $200 one. Some require more classes/training as well like getting you CC permit and so on.

Funny thing is a lot of them piss and moan about having to pay the extra little bit for a suppressor or a shorty set up...but their gun/ammo prices are wayyy lower then ours even WITH the tax stamps added on to them lol.

I know I personally, as well as many other Canadians would gladly pay for all the "extras" when you live in a country that allows you to carry/shoot/hunt with almost whatever you want!!! Hell...$200 extra for making your AR a shorty make seems like it sucks but when Colts cost you around $1,500 NEW their (before the "tactical" gun buying craze) whats an extra $200 when you can shoot them OFF A RANGE and HUNT WITH THEM!!! :p
 
jeffcarr88 said:
I know due to the rifling they are not the best shooters, with birdshot, producing more of a doughnut shaped group then a complete circular pattern.
Click to expand...

You would not, in my opinion, need to "remove" the rifling on this firearm. Disclaimer: I am not a gunsmith, just someone who has done a very small amount of research on it.

The rifling on it is shallow, yes, but it is not truly square: it has sharp corners that are more than square, it is more like this (this picture is NOT of the rifling, is extreme, and ONLY to show what I mean):

large_54_KeyStone_Chrome_Front2.jpg


The intent is to actually "chew up" the plastic cup of the shotshell to allow that donut pattern you talk about: this donut pattern lends to better spread with snake shot and buckshot at close range. I have actually helped someone with a Judge scrape the chewed up plastic out of the rifling on one of these guns: sometimes cleaning one after shooting shotshells requires lots of brushing. What you would have to do is remove the overly sharp edges to allow for the shot cup to stay whole, something like this:

friscochr.jpg


I think heavy lapping compound could work. Then you could look at a choke on it.

If it fails you are no worse off.
 
FALover said:
Would removing the rifling reduce the barrel wall and possibly allow unsafe conditions to arise. With such a short barrel for shot shells I do not believe that any choke will make a difference.
Click to expand...

No; remove the lands and you have a smooth bore of the former groove diameter. The barrel is only as strong as the thinnest point, so the lands contribute nothing to its strength.
 
arkangel06 said:
but the lands add structural support.
Click to expand...

If you're trying to bend the barrel, yes, it will be very slightly more rigid. However, the ability to retain pressure is a function of hoop stress. The lands do not form a complete circle in cross section and thus cannot contribute to retaining pressure. The inside diameter of the barrel for the purpose of calculating hoop stress is measured from groove to groove.

To give an example of this principle, when pressure vessels and piping are inspected and there is loss of material due to corrosion, the allowable pressure is calculated based on the thinnest portion of the wall (i.e. where pitting is deepest).
 
Aniest said:
You would not, in my opinion, need to "remove" the rifling on this firearm. Disclaimer: I am not a gunsmith, just someone who has done a very small amount of research on it.

The rifling on it is shallow, yes, but it is not truly square: it has sharp corners that are more than square, it is more like this (this picture is NOT of the rifling, is extreme, and ONLY to show what I mean):

large_54_KeyStone_Chrome_Front2.jpg


The intent is to actually "chew up" the plastic cup of the shotshell to allow that donut pattern you talk about: this donut pattern lends to better spread with snake shot and buckshot at close range. I have actually helped someone with a Judge scrape the chewed up plastic out of the rifling on one of these guns: sometimes cleaning one after shooting shotshells requires lots of brushing. What you would have to do is remove the overly sharp edges to allow for the shot cup to stay whole, something like this:

friscochr.jpg


I think heavy lapping compound could work. Then you could look at a choke on it.

If it fails you are no worse off.
Click to expand...

Ahh makes sense, thanks for the info!!!
 
Since you'd be sending it to a gunsmith anyway, why not call one up and get an expert opinion?
 
arkangel06 said:
but the lands add structural support.
Click to expand...

Technically this is true. But the reality is that the amount it adds is insignificant. First off it's inside instead of out on the outer surface where any bending loads stress the metal the most. Secondly the amount of metal is interrupted because of the nature of the rifling. And finally we're only talking about 2 or 3 thousandths worth of metal. To remove the rifling involves reaming away a couple of thicknesses worth of aluminium foil worth of metal.
 
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