Tell me about this 1917 Lithgow SMLE

ninepointer

ninepointer

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Having no previous experience with Lee Enfields, this one has been entrusted in my care. So far I have learned from the interweb that:

-Its a SMLE No. 1 Mk. III;
-Made in 1917 by Lithgow Small Arms, Australia;
-Used by the 2nd Military District (New South Wales);
-Stock is Queensland Maple.

What else can the Lee Enfield scholars here tell me about this one? Thanks!

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It's a No.1 Mk. III no star, and has the mag cutoff.

Haven't time for more, but the asterix and large R on the knox indicate rusting in the barrel.
 
stevebc said:
It's a No.1 Mk. III no star, and has the mag cutoff.

Haven't time for more, but the asterix and large R on the knox indicate rusting in the barrel.
Click to expand...

Thanks :cheers:

This gun is on loan to me from an elderly gentleman (Jim) who collects a bit of militaria, including a bayonet from his grandfather who served at Vimy Ridge. Jim already has a WWII era Enfield and recently acquired this one because he wanted to add a WWI era Enfield to his collection. Jim isn't particularly computer savvy and I'd like to surprise him by returning this gun to him along with as many details and historical facts as I can find.

So, to stevebc and the group:
-What is the significance of the absent star that stevebc mentioned?
-What was the purpose of the missing disk on the butt stock?
-Why are there two serial numbers on the receiver?
-The buttstock is loose although the thru-stock bolt is as tight as it will go. Is there a remedy?
-What else can you tell me?...
 
ninepointer said:
Thanks :cheers:
-The buttstock is loose although the thru-stock bolt is as tight as it will go. Is there a remedy?
...
Click to expand...

The stock bolt has a square end that fits into a square mortise in the forestock. This prevents the butt stock from loosening normally. Make sure you have removed the forestock first. Failure to remove the forestock will result in cracking it. When you reinstall the stock bolt make sure you orient the square correctly or you wont get the forend back on without doing some damage to it.
 
ninepointer said:
Thanks :cheers:

This gun is on loan to me from an elderly gentleman (Jim) who collects a bit of militaria, including a bayonet from his grandfather who served at Vimy Ridge. Jim already has a WWII era Enfield and recently acquired this one because he wanted to add a WWI era Enfield to his collection. Jim isn't particularly computer savvy and I'd like to surprise him by returning this gun to him along with as many details and historical facts as I can find.

So, to stevebc and the group:
-What is the significance of the absent star that stevebc mentioned?
-What was the purpose of the missing disk on the butt stock?
-Why are there two serial numbers on the receiver?
-The buttstock is loose although the thru-stock bolt is as tight as it will go. Is there a remedy?
-What else can you tell me?...
Click to expand...

The star indicated that some of the features of the Mk.III were dropped for wartime exigencies (cheaper and faster to produce), like the mag cutoff. There were other differences as well, but that was the big one. Yours has the earlier "button" style of cocking piece, as did mine.

The stock disc was used by various armies for various reasons, and sometimes not used at all, ie- a disc might be present, but have no markings.

As I recall, one of those numbers was an inventory number put on prior to it's being issued, at which time the second number was stamped and the first lined out, although yours doesn't look to have been.

For the loose butt- there is a remedy- Rifledude gave you good advice there, but more might be needed- the approved fix then is to apply brown paper around the stock tenon before inserting it into the butt socket. It doesn't take much to tighten that up.

This is a very "quick and dirty" explanation, but for more info, try searching this milsurp forum for "SMLE" and "Lithgow", and see what comes up, and also:

http://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=72

That site ^ is superb for this sort of thing, along with:

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?55-The-Lee-Enfield-Forum

I had one much like yours, bought it as a sporter and rebuilt it to original- a put-together "bitser", but I learned a lot and sold it on.

As for the rust- mine had a large patch of visible red rust about halfway along the bore: in the end, (having nothing to lose) I used steel wool wrapped around a jag and went at it, hard. I got rid of the rust, it never returned, but it was always a ##### to clean. Shot very well, though.

Your friend has a nice example there, and prices are only going up.
 
The second number that is on the top side is the inventory number applied when it was issued to the 2nd military district. The serial numbers were not lined out when inventory numbers were applied. I'm inclined to suggest the R on the barrel represents replacement barrel rather than rust because of the font style.
Readers might like to see a photo of the butt.
 
The asterix is another indication of rust, not just the R. I had a P14 with the same mark, and it too had rust. I agree that his inventory number wasn't lined out, but many are, and so was the one I owned and sold.

With Enfields, there always seem to be exceptions...
 
stevebc said:
The asterix is another indication of rust, not just the R. I had a P14 with the same mark, and it too had rust. I agree that his inventory number wasn't lined out, but many are, and so was the one I owned and sold.

With Enfields, there always seem to be exceptions...
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Steve no argument from me re the asterisk meaning rust in the barrel at one time, but the bold style R not.

Re the lined out numbers, I took from your previous post you were suggesting the serial numbers were lined out when the military district number were applied. Not so. Military district numbers were lined out/barred out, only when rifles were reallocated to another district, or sold from service.
 
5th Batt and HarryD: Ok, thinking back, the R on mine was the stylized R that 5thBatt posted above, under the regular capitol R. Also mine was not stamped, it was more of an "incision", ie, deeper than merely scratched in. So- I'm wrong again, lol.

And for the lined out numbers, yes, I was suggesting that the numbers were lined out when issued, as that is something I'd read more than once here and other places. Your explanation makes sense as to why some were lined out and others not. Thanks for the correction, always happy to learn something new.
 
HarryD said:
Readers might like to see a photo of the butt.
Click to expand...

Thanks everyone, great info!

Here's a photo of the butt. What are we looking for?
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What do the marks on the right side of the receiver mean (stars, shield, Roman numerals)?
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Is there a way of knowing if this gun saw war service outside of Australia?
 
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HarryD said:
That's the butt plate. A broadside shot of the butt would be better.
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Roger that. Here it is:
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The inventory number below "2MD" matches the receiver stamps, as does the Lithgow Shield 1917.
But there also is what appears to be 6MD (6th Military District, Tasmania) stamped on the butt.
Is "12/17" simply December 1917?
What else can be derived from the butt?

FYI, here's a good resource I've found regarding Lithgow marks: www.lithgowsafmuseum.org.au/factsheets/fs001_smle_markings.pdf, including:
* Slight pitting
** Moderate pitting
*** Bad pitting
 
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