Tell me something about these?
- Thread starter BRAMEL
- Start date
Greenhorse six
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Aren't the ones with the "Z" for machineguns only??? like the Vickers HMG???
.303Mark7z single-base nitrocellulose loaded,.303Mark7-cordite loaded.
Not really sure about the HMG thing,It was something about not using one(cordite) if the other was used for indirect fire because of erratic fire patterns,or something like that.
Is that any help??
.303Mark7z single-base nitrocellulose loaded,.303Mark7-cordite loaded.
Not really sure about the HMG thing,It was something about not using one(cordite) if the other was used for indirect fire because of erratic fire patterns,or something like that.
Is that any help??
The first three boxes are Mk 7 ball (Mk 7 is flat-base, Mk 8 are boat-tail, for machineguns), but I don't recognize the manufacturer; do you have a headstamp on these? The "Z" shows that they were loaded with nitrocellulose gunpowder, instead of cordite. The last box are Italian-produced blanks for their 7.7x56R machineguns (their designation for .303 British), the Breda and Scotti.
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
Actually, the boxes may be 1951 repacks of previously mfg ammo. C.I.A. stands for Canadian (or chief) Inspector of Armaments.
I have opened C^ C.I.A. marked 1950s boxes and found WWII dated brit headstamped cases.
Every x number of years they had the task of inspecting stored ammunition for degradation (corrosion of case/bullet, relyability of primer, and powder stability).
This is why you see boxes (and cartons) marked along the lines of "not for aircraft/or "syncronized gun" use after 5-15-'49...
~"Z" is the nitrocelulose designator (eg IMR 4895 ect) - as opposed to cordite. Mostly used powders imported from the 'States during WWII.
~MkVII is 174gr "flatbase" ball (actually almost "hollow base") with the 2 piece core having the "weight regulating" wood/fibre/aluminium tip credited with giving MkVII ball it's fabled "tumbling" characteristics.
~MkVIII is 174gr "boat-tail" ball which was developed for long range "indirect" (plunging) fire machinegun use.
There is NO velocity difference between MkVII and MkVIII. They were both rated @ 2440fps.
I have opened C^ C.I.A. marked 1950s boxes and found WWII dated brit headstamped cases.
Every x number of years they had the task of inspecting stored ammunition for degradation (corrosion of case/bullet, relyability of primer, and powder stability).
This is why you see boxes (and cartons) marked along the lines of "not for aircraft/or "syncronized gun" use after 5-15-'49...
~"Z" is the nitrocelulose designator (eg IMR 4895 ect) - as opposed to cordite. Mostly used powders imported from the 'States during WWII.
~MkVII is 174gr "flatbase" ball (actually almost "hollow base") with the 2 piece core having the "weight regulating" wood/fibre/aluminium tip credited with giving MkVII ball it's fabled "tumbling" characteristics.
~MkVIII is 174gr "boat-tail" ball which was developed for long range "indirect" (plunging) fire machinegun use.
There is NO velocity difference between MkVII and MkVIII. They were both rated @ 2440fps.
Grenade launching blanks were used during WWI and for years afterward. They are NOT the same as pyrotechnic blanks. If a pyrotechnic blank were used in an attempt to launch a grenade, the result could be a disaster. Commonwealth grenade launching blanks have a significant portion of their cases blacked for identification.
Mk VII ball ammo is the best .303 ball I ever fired. It was issued to my Cadet Corps in the early 80's. 1944 manufacture. Great stuff.
"not for use with synchronized guns" Said so right on the case.
Grenade blanks only is stamped on the box.
"not for use with synchronized guns" Said so right on the case.
Grenade blanks only is stamped on the box.
I dont know where the myth of tumbling Mk 7 came from but that is all bull. The tip composed of composites add stability.
That is why a long 6.5 mm bullet at 160 gns is more efficient than a .3 bullet at any wt up to 190 grains or more. The space in the tip was originally filled with aluminium and was totally enclosed in the fmj. It was chosen as a lightweight filler that wouldnt affect stability. No milspec FMJ are designed to tumble even on impact. That is enshrined in the Hague convention and supported by th Geneva convention. During the 1st World War as Aluminium became important in the war effort, too important to be fired st the enemy a solution was sought which included balsa wood, compressed paper etc.
For a true ballistically stable bullet you need a cylinder which in length exceeds its diameter by a factor of something like 5. Then for ballistic efficiency in flight ie low drag, you make the end pointed and the base boat tailed. This was the basis of the famed .303 SL streamlined match bullet of the interwars period.
You may have to trust me on this but a .303 FMJ only has the gap, note gap not cavity, filled to ensure that all of the projectiles mass is concentrated in its true cylinder length and that a hollow tip would/could be seen as infringing the aforementioned conventions. Concentrating its mass here really does increase stability, somthing discovered when the inspector of the Dum Dum arsenal sharpened all of his round nose ammunition in an attempt to emulate the German Spitzer bullet! The original 215 gn round nose was more stable than the 190 gn locally produced pointed ammo. The effect of sharpening the ammo was to expose the lead core hence the name Dum Dum. This resulted in increased velocities but poor stability.
The ammo was phased out after the Battle of Omdurman as it was deemed unfair to use on Christians and other Europeans!
For my evidence I have drawn from material from an HBSA lecture in 1992. It was given by Major Geear late of the Royal Artillery!
That is why a long 6.5 mm bullet at 160 gns is more efficient than a .3 bullet at any wt up to 190 grains or more. The space in the tip was originally filled with aluminium and was totally enclosed in the fmj. It was chosen as a lightweight filler that wouldnt affect stability. No milspec FMJ are designed to tumble even on impact. That is enshrined in the Hague convention and supported by th Geneva convention. During the 1st World War as Aluminium became important in the war effort, too important to be fired st the enemy a solution was sought which included balsa wood, compressed paper etc.
For a true ballistically stable bullet you need a cylinder which in length exceeds its diameter by a factor of something like 5. Then for ballistic efficiency in flight ie low drag, you make the end pointed and the base boat tailed. This was the basis of the famed .303 SL streamlined match bullet of the interwars period.
You may have to trust me on this but a .303 FMJ only has the gap, note gap not cavity, filled to ensure that all of the projectiles mass is concentrated in its true cylinder length and that a hollow tip would/could be seen as infringing the aforementioned conventions. Concentrating its mass here really does increase stability, somthing discovered when the inspector of the Dum Dum arsenal sharpened all of his round nose ammunition in an attempt to emulate the German Spitzer bullet! The original 215 gn round nose was more stable than the 190 gn locally produced pointed ammo. The effect of sharpening the ammo was to expose the lead core hence the name Dum Dum. This resulted in increased velocities but poor stability.
The ammo was phased out after the Battle of Omdurman as it was deemed unfair to use on Christians and other Europeans!
For my evidence I have drawn from material from an HBSA lecture in 1992. It was given by Major Geear late of the Royal Artillery!
