The 1-4X Combat Optic Conundrum

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csp

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Hello all,

Noticed a lot of traffic concerning variable combat optics or combinations thereof...just wondering on "real world" feedback on some of the following "newer" configs:

1. IOR Pitbull 1/4. Short, but heavy, huge FOV, illuminated (daytime bright?) reticle w/BDC and locking turrets? Cost: Around $1000? Will this be the Short Dot alternative (reviews don't address battery life or ruggedness)?

2. IOR 1.5-8: DMR optic? Apparently not daytime bright though...I guess can be remedied with a MRD for CQB purposes...

2. ACOG TA11F + MRD (Aimpoint T-1, Trij RMR, Insight MRDS).
Probably the most famil config for a CF mbr (3.4 ish mag with the MRD on top or offset at 1 o'clock). I found that I did not mind lifting the head too much, but have yet to try the offset. Redundancy, simple BDC. Cost will be bit less than Short Dot territory. Obviously the T-1 is gold std, but what of the RMR with tritium/Insight MRDS?

3. Ellis Optics Omega Mark 7: Any word on these?

4. Short Dot (1.1-4/1.5-6x42/1.5-6X20): The optic everyone and their dog would want, but cost (mounts) and bulk require consideration of alternatives.

5. Falcon Menace 1.5-5: Apparently a performer, but awaiting a re-design...guessing battery life not so hot, with it's low price probably a good optic to play with.

My considered app would be a shared optic between the AR-15 family and M14 Norc for some CQB, but mostly up to 300 m (600 max).

Thanks.
 
I have a falcon 1.5-5 on a shorty m14.

Not too expensive, well made and very clear. Has finger ajustable turrets, which can be zeroed too. Illuminated #4 dot, the illumination seems to leak at higher settings and depending on ambiant light the illumination seems passable. I don't know about the battery life yet. A great Sub 300$ unit.


You might add a few scopes on your list:

Nightforce NXS 1-4 : I got a 2.5-10x24 and I love it, i'm sure the its lower magnification sibling is as much as good.

Meopta Meostar 1-4 K-Dot : I've read positive reviews about this one, great quality and clarity and supposely quite visible in daylight
 
The ACOG can be used as close as 7m without supplemental kit. Just learn your sight offset and you'll do well. I can use my TAO1-NSN to punch out the eyes on a target from 7-25m away using my offset. If you get one with a CQB blade sight, be sure to check it and zero it, otherwise you'll be looking at some crazy innaccuracy.

Most ACOGs are rated for 400G impact, light, easy to use and have no extra doodads to futz with while in the fight. Oh, they also save battery weight...
 
A problem with IOR is getting them fixed and they certainly fail more than NF, prorated. The latest incident is: Received approval from the intermediary in Austria for sending Ted Gaillards faulty 6-24, sent it in May, and it was returned "unclaimed" this week. Still no satisfactory response, although we will continue to fight for Ted.

The previously-sent faulty scopes took from 218 to almost 300 days turn-around. Another tactical scope was lost and eventually replaced by IOR, although the replacement was faulty!

We are the biggest losers with IOR, as we still have some and then there are the upset customers, to whom we apologize. We sell literally many times more Nightforce scopes and have had only one return.

Regards,

Peter Dobson
Hirsch Precision Inc.
 
Thanks for the replies so far:

I really wanted to love the Leupold MR/T...but no locking turrets make me cry

Nightforce NXS: I don't think it has daytime illum...then again guess you could just add an MRD.

TR24: No BDC...I guess you could do rudimentary ranging with a green triangle...
 
I am using the Falcon Menace for recreational Service Conditions shooting. It does the job. I cannot comment on battery life, I have not bothered with using the illuminated dot. Cannot comment on long term longevity, either, this is its first season.
Personally, a "busy" reticle is just an invitation for a screwup.
A Nightforce 2 1/2 - 10 just might be the optimum, for shooting at all ranges.
 
See above comment about a "busy" reticle. Horus reticles may be fine for deliberate shooting or hunting, but in SR (snap shooting) they are just too confusing IMHO ;) A simple mildot, post or dot reticle is the answer here.
 
The Nightforce is one of the better optics available right now. Maybe not as nice as the SB, but I don't think the average joe will ever notice. There havee been complaints that you can't see the illumination in daytime conditions. I don't knwo abotu the 1-4x but you can see my 3.5-15x just fine. Besides, guys that prattle about needing thr illuminated reticle dirung the day are mostly full of hot air. Sure, there are some times you'd want it (say if you were going house to house in 'stan or Iraq) but the vast majority of users will be shooting on Saturday afternoon at the local range. You won't need it or use it so put it out of you minds.
 
Millet DMS-1...
Inexpensive and it works. Frig, the mount costs more than the scope!
Maybe not good enough for the "Sandbox", but certainly good enough for 3-gun.

DSCF2584.jpg
 
Thanks again,

Ref the illum, I found that it really does help in my case...trying to do a killhouse with the C79 had me using the vestigial Back up sights on the Elcan in exasperation.

For the Nightforce, the only thing turning me off would be the potential cost for a mount and bulk for the 2.5-10, although in theory could try the 1-4 and add an MRD...
 
667 said:
Millet DMS-1...
Inexpensive and it works. Frig, the mount costs more than the scope!
Maybe not good enough for the "Sandbox", but certainly good enough for 3-gun.
Click to expand...

I've been looking for a DMS...where did you find yours? Looks like a great little black rifle optic for those of us who don't have $1k lying around for an ACOG. Thanks.
 
CSP,

Ive had a NightForce 1-4 for over a year now, you wont need a mini red dot on top of it on the lowest magnification setting, I shoot with it regularly doing drills at 7-25m and it is only a tad slower then an aimpoint. If you are indoors the illum in the NightForce works great, its only a problem in bright sunlight where the reticle is perfectly visible anyways. If you want to mount it on your C7 the Larue mount will not work with the C7's weaver spec rail. Apparently ADM is supposed to fit, so I have an ADM Recon on order for it.

hope this helps

csp said:
Thanks again,

Ref the illum, I found that it really does help in my case...trying to do a killhouse with the C79 had me using the vestigial Back up sights on the Elcan in exasperation.

For the Nightforce, the only thing turning me off would be the potential cost for a mount and bulk for the 2.5-10, although in theory could try the 1-4 and add an MRD...
Click to expand...
 
Grunt21 said:
CSP,

Ive had a NightForce 1-4 for over a year now, you wont need a mini red dot on top of it on the lowest magnification setting, I shoot with it regularly doing drills at 7-25m and it is only a tad slower then an aimpoint. If you are indoors the illum in the NightForce works great, its only a problem in bright sunlight where the reticle is perfectly visible anyways. If you want to mount it on your C7 the Larue mount will not work with the C7's weaver spec rail. Apparently ADM is supposed to fit, so I have an ADM Recon on order for it.

hope this helps
Click to expand...

The above comments also apply to my older 1-4x IOR CQB model. Not visible in full sunlight but indoors the illuminated reticle is bright enough to see. This model has capped turrets so no worry of them getting bumped. Haven't taken it overseas yet but I plan to next year. Was wondering if Larue would fit C7 Upper, too hard to find up here anyway, so was planning on going with ADM.
 
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