"The 30-30 has killed more game in North America than any other cartridge"

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A quote in another thread got me thinking. It's often said, here and other places, that the 30-30 has taken more game than anything else.

Personally, I think that's a myth - this has nothing to do with the 30-30's suitability on game - obviously, it's got a long and prestigious history - but the 30-30's reputation as the number 1 game getter is based on a misunderstanding of the history of hunting in North America.

The 30-30 was introduced in 1895, right? It was the most popular hunting rifle till after WW I, after which it gradually declined in popularity as it was replaced by surplus 30-06s and .303s, though it likely remained one of the most popular cartridges until after the Second World War. So the myth is based on the fact that the 30-30 was the most popular cartridge during a period which a lot of people consider a golden age of North American hunting.

The problem with that assumption is that there likely weren't a lot of deer taken during the main period of the 30-30's popularity. There just weren't a lot of deer left at the turn of the century. Here's a quote to support that:

"Deer Population Facts: The U.S. deer population has exploded in the last 30 years. The deer population in North America when the Europeans arrived has been estimated to have been over 50 million. With uncontrolled hunting, by 1900, they had been reduced to less than ½ million. Since being protected and reintroduced in many places, the deer population has rebounded to exceed what the land can bear. Presently there are one or more species found across the continental U.S., southern Canada, Alaska and northern Mexico, and the deer population is estimated to now be higher than ever before." (http://www.deerdamagecontrolfence.com/deer_population.htm)

So, in other words, the 30-30 became popular after most of the deer (and elk, moose and bears) in the continent had been wiped out, and was mainly popular during a period when hunting would have been very difficult, and few animals would have been taken. By the time deer populations were supporting more harvest, the 30-30 had been overtaken by the '06 and the .270 and .308.

So, I say the 30-30 shouldn't be referenced as having taken more animals than any other - since it came after the big market hunting boom that eliminated most of the animals on the continent, and before the increase of game populations that followed the war period, the 30-30 was likely surpassed long ago by the 30-06, and never came close to the black powder rifles and muzzleloaders that were used by the market gunners.

Honestly, if we're going to give the most animals killed crown to a cartridge, I'd say it probably belongs to the muzzleloader, which was used for a good 350 years in the continent, and took a hell of a lot of game. But with game populations being what they are now, and the number of hunters now being far higher than it would have been in the early 1800's, a good case could also be made for the '06 as the champ.

Again, this is nothing against the 30-30 - it's a great cartridge - but I thought I saw a cartridge argument that we hadn't had yet, and thought it might be a good one.

Discuss.
 
The 30-30 has SHOT AT more big game then any other cartridge. All these oldtimers surely didn't practice much (no $$ for ammo) and kill EVERY animal they shot at.
 
I bet the 30-06 has surpassed the 30-30 in kills by now. That being said within its limitations the 30-30 is a lethal cartridge. Not ideal for alot of stuff but it will work. Dont try to make it out to be something it is not and it will work just fine like it has for the past 113 years :) Shot my first deer with a M94 30-30, it worked good
 
No doubt the .30/30 has much to offer, it's accurate, powerful enough to fill it's niche as a deer rifle cartridge, and it comes in a wonderfully handy package as marketed by Winchester or Marlin. I hope those rifles never go out of production as it gives me a warm comfortable feeling knowing they are available, but I don't want one.

The .30/30 cartridge ballistically falls behind many of it's contemporaries. The .303 chambered Lee Enfield rifle is more powerful, more rugged, and has a cavernous magazine capacity. The .30/40 Krag likewise is ballistically superior. The trouble is that neither the Lee Enfield or Krag is in production but the Winchester and Marlin carbines are. Marlin has even recognized the short comings of the .30/30 and produced a .308 powered round, the .308MX, suitable for use in the 336 rifle. Whether this round will be an economic success remains to be seen, as those who purchase .30/30 lever guns tend not to be taken with new and shinny innovations. Those who, in the early part of the 20th century were drawn to rifle shooting rather than hunting, were quickly won over by the power and accuracy of the bolt action rifle and the .30/06 cartridge. The .30/06 like the .303 before it became a world standard, where as the .30/30 was seldom seen outside of North America.

The .30/30 does have it's niche though, and this might spell an early death to the .308MX. That niche is as a close to medium range deer cartridge for use in a fast handling carbine. More bulk would make the rifle cumbersome and more velocity would do nothing more than create blood shot meat at .30/30 ranges. In it's niche, the .30/30 is almost perfect.

Like any other specialty cartridge though, the .30/30 is not terribly versatile. This is not important to the man who takes his deer in the same location year after year, neither is it important to those who have a broad selection of specialty rifles. But the man who hunts a wide variety of big game in varying terrain with a single rifle is better off with a scoped .308 carbine that shoots flatter but is the same length and weight as the .30/30 lever action.
 
I even heard it said that the 44/40 has taken more deer than anything else. That's one that I certainly don't believe and I'm doubtful about it being true for the 30-30.

It is however very good cartridge used within it's limitations. Last fall my Dad killed a running buck in the brush with his Marlin .30-30 and the next day I took killed a deer in a farm field at long range with my .270. Both did everything they were ever meant to.
 
In Canada I'd bet the 303 British for big game. I wonder on a poundage of game taken, how many tons of gophers, bunnies, squirrels, grouse and pests have been killed with 22 LR.
 
I figure evryone is wrong I am sure some of those old buffalo guns have killed more big game than any modern cartridge rifle after all they were killing buffalo just for sport and to let the railway through.
 
That claim has been made about the 30-30, 30-06, 22RF, 375H&H (in Africa), and so on and so on. It is generally made by someone defending a hoary old cartridge against more recent magnum cartridges.

If you think about it, that has to be the most unprovable claim ever made about anything, much less a rifle cartridge. It is probably even more unprovable than the story about the old squaw in the Yukon that killed an elephant with a 22 by shooting it in the eye.

Has someone actually recorded every head of game ever shot in North America and the cartridge it was shot with? The closest you could ever come is to record the number of firearms sold in any given calibre, but I would even doubt that number could ever be accurately reconstructed. And if you could, you would have to assume that was directly related to game shot.

I don't pay too much attention to those sorts of claims.
 
Mr. Yaschke from Hines Creek alberta killed a grizzly in a pig pen with a 22. I know that one to be true for sure.

The 3030 "myth" is a good story to tell when you dont have the 7mm STW that the customer wants.......lol
 
"The 30-30 has killed more game in North America than any other cartridge"

Since the proposition above doesn't specify any particular type or class of game, Grizzlypeg's suggestion about .22 rimfires is very much on point. And we can add the 12gauge shotgun as a contender, too.
 
Any calibre that has been in production since Christ was a cowboy has obviously killed more game than many calibres.

Simply stated - 'cause that's all they had! Hunters of yore realized it's limitations, and worked with them. If they had ready access to an ubber Mag at the time, they would of taken it.
 
I don't think there is any doubt the .22 rimfire in one variation or the other would rank as king. It is available the World over, and has no doubt killed BILLIONS of animals over it's century and a half or so life time. Small game and big game. How many deer has the average hunter over his career shot? A few dozen? Maybe an elk or bear thrown in there. But how many varmints has that same hunter shot this year alone?

Now if were counting only big game, (And the .22 has been there as well) I would bet the .30-30 has taken it's fair share of game. Nobody can tell which cartridge has shot more, and it doesn't matter. I've heard many guys, most who have never owned or even shot a .30-30 whine about how it really is the king at wounding game. Bulls#it. Don't blame a perfectly adequete cartridge for your pi$$ poor shooting skills. If you keep it where it was designed to be shot at, 200 yards or so, it will kill the biggest moose as dead as the biggest .300 magnum. Too many people think more power means more room for error, thus a higher kill ratio. Also bulls#it. Give a .30-30 to a new shooter and he'll be printing the bullets on the pie plate at a 100 yards. Give the same guy a .300 Ultra and he'll be so scared of it, he'd be lucky to hit the backstop. The .30-30 is a nice shooting, easy to learn cartridge. Don't expect too much out of it, and it will treat you as good if not better than the big thumpers. Nuff said.
 
I know I'll always have 1 or 2 or 3 [bolt ,SS + lever] 200 yards or less it's freezer time! Harold
 
another way to see it

Wooly ESS said:
That claim has been made about the 30-30, 30-06, 22RF, 375H&H (in Africa), and so on and so on. It is generally made by someone defending a hoary old cartridge against more recent magnum cartridges.

If you think about it, that has to be the most unprovable claim ever made about anything, much less a rifle cartridge. It is probably even more unprovable than the story about the old squaw in the Yukon that killed an elephant with a 22 by shooting it in the eye.

Has someone actually recorded every head of game ever shot in North America and the cartridge it was shot with? The closest you could ever come is to record the number of firearms sold in any given calibre, but I would even doubt that number could ever be accurately reconstructed. And if you could, you would have to assume that was directly related to game shot.

I don't pay too much attention to those sorts of claims.
Click to expand...

I think you may find the claim is based on the amount of ammo sold, the reloading components consumed and the dies sold. Likely a higher proportion of some calibers is spent at the range vs hunting than we might find for the .30WCF. It is neither here nor there, except as an excuse to argue over beer.
 
looking back in history, the smooth bore musket has taken more game over
the past 500+ years in north amerika than any other firearm.

Mr. Woodcock considered the 30-30 as a long range catridge and a good
all-round big game cailbre.
bear in mind that his expertise spans over more than 50 years, from muzzle loader to smoke-less factory ammo.
 
Myth? Maybe, no doub't however, that it's well up there in the totals of game it's taken.
The 44-40, was a big game cartridge in it's day, and, before the gun writers said it could do it, it accounted for everything up to and including plains buffalo. Certainly, it accounted for a lot too.
One must remember that as the first post said, game was on the decline.
However, you must also consider the amazing number of 30-30 rifles of all makes out there. It's not just the carbines and there are millions of those, It's found in bolt guns, single shots, drillings, over and under combo guns, and handguns. Probably lots more too.
Shear numbers of these rifles ensure that even with limited game numbers, the game that was taken was taken in large part with the 30-30.
Popular in Europe too, as the 7.62x51R, but generally not in lever guns.
 
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30-30 Winchester

http://www.norma.cc/content.asp?Typ=59&Lang=2&DocumentID=279&Submeny=4&Rubrik=Calibers&Title=30-30%20Winchester30-30 Winchester

This was the first American sporting cartridge designed for use with smokeless powder. Winchester introduced it in 1895 in their new, Browningdesigned, Model-1894 lever-action rifle. It was originally called the 30 WCF (Winchester Center Fire). The modern name derives from the era when this number was introduced, when blackpowder cartridges were often designated by caliber, charge and bullet weight. It is claimed that the original 30-30 factory loading used 30 grains of smokeless powder, which may well be true; hence, the 30-30 moniker. Designed for use in lever-action rifles, the 30-30 has always been loaded at relatively moderate pressures. Nevertheless, it has become quite popular, worldwide. In Europe, it is known as the 7.62x51R. This is the epitome of deer cartridges, particularly for whitetail hunting. As such, for nearly a century it remained the yardstick by which performance of all other deer chamberings was judged. Despite its widespread popularity throughout America, by modern standards, the 30-30 is, and always has been, best relegated to use on whitetail and mule deer. It is certainly marginal, at best, for use on elk. Only the most skilled marksman, who is willing to only take shots at close range and who will choose and use only the best available bullet should consider it for such hunting. In Europe, it is considered adequate
only for use on the diminutive roe deer.
 
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