The allure of the British gun

Pinfire

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The Brits did not invent the gun. That credit goes to the Chinese, who invented gunpowder in the 9th or 10th century in a failed attempt to discover the Elixir of Life and built hand-held tubes to fire it out of. The Spanish invented the rifle stock for such tubes, the Portuguese invented the matchlock, the Italians or Germans invented the wheellock, and the French are credited with the flintlock. It was a Scot, Alexander Forsyth, who came up with the chemical ignition lock, arguably the real game-changer, but the later percussion cap might have been a British, French or American idea – nobody knows for sure. The French can also lay claim to the pin-fire and modern centrefire systems, and the breech-loading sporting gun can be said to be a Swiss idea. The Belgians were masters in steel-making technology, and in the world of repeating guns, it would seem that most successful designs came out of John Moses Browning’s brain. And yet, though the Spanish, French, Germans, Belgians, Americans and others were (and are) capable of building the finest guns, none of these countries have been able to knock the British off their perch in terms of gun-making desirability, and I’m curious as to why.

Britain did not have a monopoly on source materials. Actually, much was second-best. The best gun steels came out of Belgium and Sweden. In fact, just about all British sporting guns with damascus barrels were built with Belgian-sourced tubes. The so-called English walnut isn’t even a native species, as Juglans regia originated in Persia before being cultivated and widely dispersed by Alexander the Great and the Romans (the latter brought it to Britain). The beautifully veined and marbled wood sought for sporting guns was most likely sourced from Central Asia and the Balkans. The Brits did catch up steel-wise with Henry Bessemer’s process (1856), which removed the impurities plaguing British steel, and Joseph Whitworth used this process, starting in 1857, to produce his fluid steel barrels (though his barrels did not become commonplace until the 1880s).

The Brits came up with mechanical ideas that drowned out the competition. Theophilus Murcott of London came up with the hammerless gun in 1871, available in sidelock and trigger-plate action versions. Then William Anson and John Deeley came up with the boxlock action in 1875 while at Westley Richards, and Frederick Beesley dreamed up the self-opener sidelock in 1879 while working for Purdey’s. [We’ll leave out the trigger-plate actions of James MacNaughton (1879) and John Dickson (1880) of Scotland, as they essentially copied an earlier German design.] Best-quality Spanish guns are generally copies of British designs (notably Holland & Holland and Purdey sidelocks), and everyone copies the A&D boxlock for its simplicity and dependability. Most French guns are based on similar patterns while producing a smaller number of their own outside-the-box, often exquisite, mechanical designs.

If the desirability of British guns is only partly due to originality of design and workmanship, there must be something else. It may be a social class affair, as fine British sporting guns were aimed at the wealthy (often land-owning) elite. Who doesn’t want to own what was formerly only the domain of the fabulously wealthy? There is also the matter of name recognition. One enterprising soul on another gun board has developed a scoring system to determine value, in which name recognition is an essential factor. Most can rattle off five British gunmakers of solid repute, and some can name ten without too much difficulty, especially ones still in business or whose span of years was considerable. Beyond this, it might be a struggle, though. Just for the period that fascinates me, the 1850s and 1860s, there were over 900 known sporting gun makers in Great Britain and Ireland operating for all or some of those years. Everyone knows the names Purdey, Holland & Holland, and Westley Richards in the context of Best Guns. However, a great many gunmakers had the ability to produce guns of equal quality when the commission required it. This is not too surprising when you consider the business model that generally depended on outsourcing the myriad tasks and manufacturing processes, and where the name on the gun is the ultimate retailer, not necessarily its builder. Can a Blanch, Erskine, Pape or Paton equal or surpass a Boss, Woodward or Rigby? Easily, if the client wanted it to, and many did, including royalty. Smaller gunmakers could buy the same materials (barrels, locks, etc.) from the same businesses that supplied the great names, and often hired the same outworkers the big names used, for the more difficult tasks and procedures. And yet, we are still seduced by the storied names, even though many of these are now owned by investment firms, and where profits come from branded clothing and accessories.

How to conclude? Perhaps the desirability of British guns comes from a bit of all of the above in terms of quality materials, workmanship, and humanity’s never-ending desire for a good story. Others may claim to have one or two of these, but perhaps not all three, as the Brits have perfected.

Does anyone have differing views, or their own perspectives on the subject?

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I have owned all different brands and nationalities shotguns for hunting over the years, but my all time favorites are Westely Richards, they are well made, smooth operating , and really good looking guns!
I am also a fan of upper end Spanish made guns , but keep going back to a quick handling , lightweight, 2 1/2" 12 bore Brit!
Cat
 

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You've missed a key element Steve.

Britain was and is an island nation. One whose success at dominating the world, as it did as one of history's great empires, was based on two related concepts. The British Navy and the international trade that naval dominance at sea around the world allowed, are the twin pillars of her success.

Britain was a nation of traders, in one form or another. Drag the raw goods back to home and then create value added products to be sold around the world. That's how they got rich. Their colonies served two purposes......provide the raw goods and then be the market for the finished product. And inherent in that approach is convincing the world that you make the best stuff. Which Britain did admirably for a very long time. Sporting guns are no different that any other product....the buyers are susceptible to being "sold".

Rocketman's charts, which you referred to, confirm that. 120 years later, two guns, equal in every way, will see one selling for 4 to 6 times the other because it's one of the Big Four of London Best fame. No different than today's buyers of Nike or Dyson or a hundreds of other premium branded products where the actual difference is barely noticeable when compared to many brands' products with less cachet to their brand name.

"English guns" and "London Best" are de facto brand names themselves.
 
I have always considered the British to be the finest shotgun makers around. Some fine guns built in Spain, Italy and Germany and American Parker, LC Smith and Fox were no slouchs but sadly long out of business.
The lines of a top end british gun are truly classic. Weight alone is remarkable, 12 gauge doubles with 30 inch barrels, nothing but wood and steel less than 6 1/2 lbs.
They swing and point like they are alive. Usually not gaudy with engraving and embellishment like some European guns. Just understated, classic lines. I own 3 British guns, a plain Jane hammer gun out of Birmingham, a hammerless box lock 1890's Birmingham best working gun 16 gauge and the best is an 1860's Alexander Henry 12 double best gun. Personally I have never seen finer work on any gun built anywhere than the Henry.
 
I'll add that who makes the best shotguns is a moving target. It certainly was the Brits for some period of time. But not always. The crown for the best over the last 30-40 years could arguably go to either a few Italian makers or a couple German makers. But when the Brits were definitely the best in the world a century and more ago, the Italians weren't even playing the game. The Spaniards and the Americans have never come close. Not in design and not in execution. Belgium, France and Austria have had some makers that might have vied for the title in their time.

Further to my earlier post, I think it makes more sense to judge the gun, not the country. The country is just another brand name. And brand names are simply shortcuts to understanding perceived quality. The attributes we assign to a brand name are built in our collective minds over time. However, they are still just a short cut. And because they are a short cut.....it is easy for the qualities to disappear but the recognition of brand value to continue on for years and even decades
 
Very well described. I may have to reconsider my belief that the Belge where the best.

Ah, the Belgians... Their centuries-old mastery of the cheap trade gun gave them good profits, but earned them a bad reputation for quality. This is sad, because Belgian gunmaking is equal to the best, no mistake -- but the good ones are drowned out by the volume of bad ones. Liège has been in the gun-making business since about 1350 (not a typo, yes, that old). By the end of the 1700s, Liège was a major centre for European gunmaking, and it only grew from there. Belgium and The Netherlands were once a united kingdom (1815-1830), and the Dutch invested heavily in developing the Liège gun industry. The venerable John Rigby, writing in 1863 of his observations on the international exhibition of 1862, praised the gunmakers of Liège, adding "...the barrel forgers of Birmingham and the iron masters of Wednesbury who supply their rod-iron, have a great deal to learn in many respects" when comparing British gunmaking of the day to the Belgians. Fine sporting guns were being made in Belgium in the 1850s and 1860s, like this large-bore rifle by Jean-Baptiste Rongé et Fils:
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While excellent at copying the best designs of the day, Liège had its own inventors, like Maximilien Nicolas Colleye, who came up with his own solutions to breech-loading:
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The 1860s also started what would become the firm of Lebeau-Courally. If I can't have a Purdey sidelock or a Holland & Holland Royal, I would happily have a Lebeau-Courally of any stripe. A good overview of the company and a pair of their guns is found here:

There is a reason why John Browning was very happy with FN building his ideas. Belgian guns should never be overlooked, there are real gems among the chaff. We don't often come across the fine ones this side of the Atlantic, but they are there, if you look hard enough!
 
Didn’t Italian triggers really make British shotguns shine?
That's a new one that I haven't heard before, it must be a recent thing? I don't know of any British gunmaker having turned to Italian (designed? made?) triggers, but my knowledge of current industry practices is limited, and of Italian gun-making, even more so. Single-triggers on double guns have always been problematic to a degree, either mechanical or inertia-driven. I suppose single-triggers are wonderful, until they go haywire. I can't picture a double-gun gunsmith going "oh boy, a single trigger to work on!," but I might be wrong on this. But to be safe, I prefer double triggers, and extractors over ejectors. Less complexity means less trouble.
 
Not guns per se, but August Francotte, a Belgian maker, made the original baby, aka Cadet, sized Martini in 1878, which a lot of the smaller Birmingham gunmakers used as the basis for very nice Rook & Rabbit rifles, like the Robert Hughes & Sons I used to own. [Lower one in the photo]

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As well, one of the Holy Trinity, Holland & Holland, a few years ago discovered a stash of brand-spanking-new Belgian Damascus tubes and are fitting them to new shotguns. If that is not an endorsement, I'm not sure what is.
 
For sxs guns in my experience they excel because the way the weight is centered in the hands. They're trim and well built to a level not a price point. They're lines and demensions are such that many ppl can shape themselves to fit the gun rather than the gun be perfectly fitted to them. Much like a modern parallel comb on an ou sporting clay gun fits many ppl because the face can be placed in various places and the sight remains the same as various angles.
The British trade got those lines just right
Whether it's a 12 bore with 25" barrels or 30" barrels the weight always seems balanced between the hands which makes them swing and point and come up with ease and in fluid motion such that they're more instinctive rather than mechanical
American guns are horrible in comparison for these attributes. The Spanish guns are great copiers and there are some great guns but again lost in the cheap outpouring of junk Spain offered. They built alot of guns to a price point and that hurt alot of the trade there

Guns will always be mass produced where labour is cheap. Once that labour reaches its value the quality of its makers will start to stand out. There is not the level of designing or new patents nowadays as most all things gun related is of old. We just now find better materials and cheaper ways to build things. Take turkey for example. They build alot of mass produced junk yet there are some Turkish companies producing expensive top grade level guns. Those fine guns are hampered by the stigma of the cheap much like Spain and Italy and Belgium once we're

I can find enjoyment in all levels of sxs guns as I own and shoot Baikals and arizagas as well as huglus Dickinson and a JD Dougall.
They all have their place and I'd never look down on anyone's choice of SxS even if I aspire to own and shoot examples from the big British houses like Purdy and Holland and Holland
 
Ah, the Belgians... Their centuries-old mastery of the cheap trade gun gave them good profits, but earned them a bad reputation for quality. This is sad, because Belgian gunmaking is equal to the best, no mistake -- but the good ones are drowned out by the volume of bad ones. Liège has been in the gun-making business since about 1350 (not a typo, yes, that old). By the end of the 1700s, Liège was a major centre for European gunmaking, and it only grew from there. Belgium and The Netherlands were once a united kingdom (1815-1830), and the Dutch invested heavily in developing the Liège gun industry. The venerable John Rigby, writing in 1863 of his observations on the international exhibition of 1862, praised the gunmakers of Liège, adding "...the barrel forgers of Birmingham and the iron masters of Wednesbury who supply their rod-iron, have a great deal to learn in many respects" when comparing British gunmaking of the day to the Belgians. Fine sporting guns were being made in Belgium in the 1850s and 1860s, like this large-bore rifle by Jean-Baptiste Rongé et Fils:
bCgmhv4.jpg


While excellent at copying the best designs of the day, Liège had its own inventors, like Maximilien Nicolas Colleye, who came up with his own solutions to breech-loading:
juLXJHE.jpg


The 1860s also started what would become the firm of Lebeau-Courally. If I can't have a Purdey sidelock or a Holland & Holland Royal, I would happily have a Lebeau-Courally of any stripe. A good overview of the company and a pair of their guns is found here:

There is a reason why John Browning was very happy with FN building his ideas. Belgian guns should never be overlooked, there are real gems among the chaff. We don't often come across the fine ones this side of the Atlantic, but they are there, if you look hard enough!
My favourite sxs (so far) is a very nice little Belgian 28ga Verrees & Oste hammer gun. Very nice and well built in my estimation. It’s not a Boss or H&H or Purdey but nice (imo) none the less.
 
The allure of the British gun ? Well, I certainly won't be as eloquent as other posters... But here it goes...
- I like shinny things. Or should I say, I really like well built and balanced shinny things... and it just so happens that the British gun trade has produced a whole lot them, and in recent years (tks to their stupid-gun-laws) a slew of them have made it across the pond for us to enjoy (for reasonable $)

For years, I was happy enough to chase birds with a semi or pump. And while the IC/Skeet chokes did a good job, the idea of having access to a 2nd barrel with a different choke never really occurred to me :rolleyes:... Got to play with some American stuff (Red Label and 101) and a BSS they were nice, but not nice enough to part with $.

Then 15 or 20 years ago, a friend lent me an old Francotte SxS... and that I really liked... and the rest is history...

So yeah, I (like many others) lust over many English shotgun... and Irish shotguns, and French shotguns, and Prussian shotguns, and Russian shotguns... Heck, I even wouldn't mind some Spanish shotguns... lets not forget that Canadian Malin that Ashcroft offered for sale!
- Too many guns, not enough time and $...
 
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For me, I have been hypnotized by SXS’s ever since the 60’s when I saw a rendering of a SXS flint made for Napoleon that was in one of my Dads “Gun Digests”. Other that a Cooey 840 in .410 that my Dad gave me 45 years ago, I have never owned a shotgun that was NOT a SXS.
 
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