The Better Rimfire Thread

[Max Owner]

Hey all.

On a quest to learn about high end rimfire bolt guns and ammo. Hope to have a discussion type thing where people who own VooDoo's, Ultimatum Duece rifles and barrel lengths and twist rates. To learn about the hierarchy of ammo brands for SK, Lapua and Eley and maybe RWS.

Tesro is doing builds on CZ 457 actions and using IBI barrels. If anyone had bought one of these projects, would love to hear about it.

Accuracy you have had with rifle/barrel and ammo combo's.


Please.....

 

[22forever]

Stiller

 

[grauhanen]

Here's something that .22LR shooters looking for a "better rimfire" must keep in mind. This applies to all rimfires, Vudoo, RimX, Ultimatum Deuce -- every single make and model ever available.

No rifle will outshoot the ammo it's given.

In other words, regardless of the make and model of "better rimfire" rifles, when it comes to accuracy it doesn't matter much if the best ammo isn't used. Simply using something like Eley Tenex or Lapua Midas isn't a guarantee of anything. This is likely one of the reasons a lot of high end, supposedly "better rimfire" rifles are bought and then sold within a year or two.

 

[Travis_m]

What are you planning on using the rifle for. You'll get vastly different answers if you want a bench rest rifle vs a prs rifle vs a speed steel rifle.

 

[allan harris]

I recently bought my wife a Vudoo 360 with a carbon fibre wrapped Bartlein - 20" Kukri profile. Grayboe Ridgeback stock - TT Special. This thing is brand new but based on the first few hundred rounds fired, it will be a better shooter than both the Vudoos we currently have - 20" MTU & 22" Kukri Bartleins and the Rim X with 26" MTU 3 groove Benchmark/EC tuner.

We haven't seen any Lapua/RWS around here in a very long time but it's shooting like this with untested SK Long Range & Pistol Match Special - Those circle O.D's are 12MM:

 

[Max Owner]

Thanx guys. I am in search of better ammo. Have a brick of Eley Tenex and Lapua X-act so far on order.

I want to up my level of seriousness in target shooting and try an 1100 yard/meter shot. And definitely further than 200 yards/meters. Before people jump on me for the
Long range stuff, I am a realist and know it’s next to impossible. But I will try it someday.

 

[Big Bad]

Thanx guys. I am in search of better ammo. Have a brick of Eley Tenex and Lapua X-act so far on order.

I want to up my level of seriousness in target shooting and try an 1100 yard/meter shot. And definitely further than 200 yards/meters. Before people jump on me for the
Long range stuff, I am a realist and know it’s next to impossible. But I will try it someday.

I wish you luck but if you want to shoot at 1 kilometre distances I think you will need a larger calibre than .22 LR. Or at least a prismatic sight similar to that used by JTF2 in their world record shot.

 

[Max Owner]

Have been window shopping at Night Force’s Prism and Charlie Taraq’s.

 

[250-25X]

Thanx guys. I am in search of better ammo. Have a brick of Eley Tenex and Lapua X-act so far on order.

It's highly unlikely that you'll find the perfect ammo with just two batches, even if what you bought are top of the line produced by these manufacturers.

It always come down to the same thing: you have to find a lot that groups well in your barreled action. To illustrate this, take a look at this pic: these are two lots of Tenex, produced around the same time, shot in the same rifle at the Eley factory (my Anschütz 1913 with a Benchmark barrel):



As you can see, it's not because you shoot Tenex of X-act that you will necessarily get good results. If it is possible for you, try to test as many different lots of match ammo you can find, two is just not enough.

And finally, this is really my personal opinion, but I don't really see the point of shooting .22LR at more than 100 yards. Beyond this distance, accuracy deteriorates quickly and wind reading becomes extremely difficult.

Good luck !

 

[Jahnj0584]

 

[grauhanen]

It's highly unlikely that you'll find the perfect ammo with just two batches, even if what you bought are top of the line produced by these manufacturers.

As you can see, it's not because you shoot Tenex of X-act that you will necessarily get good results. If it is possible for you, try to test as many different lots of match ammo you can find, two is just not enough.

And finally, this is really my personal opinion, but I don't really see the point of shooting .22LR at more than 100 yards. Beyond this distance, accuracy deteriorates quickly and wind reading becomes extremely difficult.

This is good advice.

The name on the box or brick of ammo is never a guarantee of how it will shoot. To illustrate, I have a lot of Lapua's top-of-the-line X-Act, and it doesn't perform well on target or over the chronograph using two good rifles. It's possible to be lucky and get a good shooting lot, but it's a gamble that risks ammo money in one small basket.

Regarding long distance shooting with .22LR, no matter the rifle or the ammo the following is always true. As distance increases, 22LR performance deteriorates more and more. It can be challenging to shoot consistently small groups at 50 yards/meters. It's even more difficult at 100. And what's difficult at 100 is harder still at 200.

Why? The problem is that .22LR performance is not linear as distance to target increases.

 

[Mystic Precision]

ELR rimfire is an optics and ammo game. Seems like the new Lapua Super Long range is where you want to spend your efforts.

wrt to the barreled action, consistent ignition is what you want from the action (most modern bolt actions will do this). Barrel accurate enough to drop 10rds consistently into 1" at 100m, 3" at 200m, 6 to 7" at 300m.... you are talking about wind drift that is measured in 10's of feet per MPH. Mechanical accuracy is not going to be all that important that far out.

If you are looking to ELR shoot just for fun, aim really high and go for it... if you want some degree of consistency, it is a deep dark rabbit hole with big dollars spent and likely, inconsistent results.

Got to 600+yds without ridiculous investments... proved what I needed to. Now I just keep it simple and keep my distances inside 400yds.

YMMV

Jerry

 

[.22LRGUY]

Thanx guys. I am in search of better ammo. Have a brick of Eley Tenex and Lapua X-act so far on order.

I want to up my level of seriousness in target shooting and try an 1100 yard/meter shot. And definitely further than 200 yards/meters. Before people jump on me for the
Long range stuff, I am a realist and know it’s next to impossible. But I will try it someday.

Hey Max-I wish you nothing but luck with this venture, but I had to read the 1100 yard # about 3 times to believe you're wanting to take that on with a 22LR? I have to assume if you're looking at rifles in this class you already have a sense of what the results will look like downrange? 22LR bullets are relatively slow moving with a poor BC and are shaped roughly like a soup can. Again, not a criticism...I'd love to see how it all works out!

I've pushed 22LR to the outer limits of what I think it's capable of...only on gophers. Not everyone's idea of fun either (no idea why ) but good results are their own kind of rewarding. Since it kind of plays into the conversation, the longest shots I take on groundhogs with my 204 Ruger is 300 yards. lol Actually shot gophers further than that with 22LR, but on one occasion and in one place. Lots of targets, lots of ammo, lots of wind, 1 hit in 10 shots was about the best we could do. On our most recent gopher trip, wind gusts were so fast one day we were holding a foot into it on 50 yard targets.

 

[Max Owner]

I used the 1100 yard one as there is a video of guy doing it with his 22.

I do have a rifle that is capable of 4,000 yards as it sits. But don't talk about due to the OIC thats in effect. So I do have better for long range. But it will be a learning/understanding experience. We have a 2,000 meter range in the works for my area. Done work at 2pm. So there will be lots of time to try.

 

[wallz]

I plink out to 500 m. I say plink, because the metal plates will not register hits with the 22lr on our range unless you have cameras on them, which I do not. So I usually hit the berms, and aim for rocks so I can see my rounds.

I guess one day I'll get it on paper out there, just to see what it does. None the less it is just fun to do at those distances past the 100m. I see enough guys at the range that don't push their hunting rifles past 200m, much less the 22lr.

What you will find is ammo that is great at 50m may not be so great at 100m. Then as you grow the distance out there you see how things quickly fall apart, so as others have pointed out, its a crap shoot.

Watch some of the video's of the 1000m and 22lr. The realistic ones show you how hard it is, and how many rounds before you get a hit on 4ft x 4ft square, but yea its doable. I think the latest one I watched was Womfat's go at it.

If it is just to prove you can do it, go for it and have fun while at it, and don't let the nay sayers slow you down.

 

[Mystic Precision]

I pinned down a kids hoola hop which gave me a simple target of known size... ground was raked so lots of dust to kick up. Easy to spot shots from way back there. You can also put stakes every ft or meter from the target which is a super easy way to monitor the misses.



For me, I loose interest when the group size is many times larger then the target size... or you have to use a target so big that it becomes impractical.

Jerry

 

[.22LRGUY]

I used the 1100 yard one as there is a video of guy doing it with his 22.

I do have a rifle that is capable of 4,000 yards as it sits. But don't talk about due to the OIC thats in effect. So I do have better for long range. But it will be a learning/understanding experience. We have a 2,000 meter range in the works for my area. Done work at 2pm. So there will be lots of time to try.

Awesome, well, good luck! I suppose the question (or one of them?) might be; "how significant a difference will a top-tier rifle make with so many other factors impacting what the bullet does X that distance?" I suppose if you're looking at what you are, your answer is "maybe a big one=not taking a chance" lol

I hope you post lots of pics, and report back. Sounds like tons of fun. I think allot of us are cooking-up fun .22LR stuff in 2024.

 

[Max Owner]

I was eyeing up a Tesro build on a CZ 457 action with an IBI 24" 1 in 14 twist. Then started humming and hawing about an Ultimatum Duece with a 24 or 25" 1 in 12 twist rate. Then thoughts moved onto the Voo Doo.

The stakes are a good idea, Jerry.

The plan for the range will have in running north and south. There is one in Valley View Alberta that runs the same with good tree coverage on both sides that the wind is never too bad.

 

[Mystic Precision]

Good luck... let us know how it goes

Jerry

 

[Longstud]

I recently bought my wife a Vudoo 360 with a carbon fibre wrapped Bartlein - 20" Kukri profile. Grayboe Ridgeback stock - TT Special. This thing is brand new but based on the first few hundred rounds fired, it will be a better shooter than both the Vudoos we currently have - 20" MTU & 22" Kukri Bartleins and the Rim X with 26" MTU 3 groove Benchmark/EC tuner.

We haven't seen any Lapua/RWS around here in a very long time but it's shooting like this with untested SK Long Range & Pistol Match Special - Those circle O.D's are 12MM:

Very encouraging results. Especially with a new barrel. It should only get better !!