Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
This, is my favorite pistol, bar none. I've written in passing about them once before, this will do them more justice. I was preparing a friendly argument for a post in defence of my beloved P7M8 when I realized all I'd accomplish would be a thread hijack, and I truly wanted to go deeper anyhow, so I decided what the heck we're all gun nuts might as well make a thread. Folks just might even learn something, enjoy it, or both.
I won't delve into the history of the P7, google tells the story better than I do anyhow, and while its service and past as a better mousetrap is interesting, it is the gun itself and its incredible design that interest me. Below I've included photos of the P7M8 and video of function and dissassembly (at bottom, check it out), and will outline features I find especially remarkable. The main concept I wish to address is its engineering, German to the core. Now, it gets an undeserved rap for being overly intricate and complicated, like many things German. The fact its action is gas closed, the case floats on gas and will extract and eject normally without the extractor, and the firing mechanism squeeze cocked, often leads to a natural conclusion that the pistol is over-engineered and complex. Not so; and I will demonstrate this. The P7M8 is considerably less complex than a 1911, and many other pistols. Its remarkable function is simply a result of simple design made to work flawlessly in form; true engineering.
Attributes of the P7M8:
-Squeeze cocked, squeezing the grip cocks the pistol, no external safeties and releasing the grip pressure puts the pistol to "safe".
-Striker fired, with a system much like a Glock, though the rearward striker movement is accomplished by the grip, with the trigger providing the release, unlike Glock's trigger only system. This results in a single action trigger pull every shot.
-Pistol is fully ambidextrous without any adjustment.
-Near vertical magazine well results in an extremely compact over all length of 6 1/2" or 167mm and fast mag drops.
-Hammer forged polygonally rifled barrel is long lived, extremely accurate, and provides slightly higher velocities than an equivalent length land and groove type conventional barrel.
-Simply squeeze the grip on a fresh mag and the slide drops and chambers a round.
-Chamber is fluted, the case floats on gas pressure created during firing, resulting in cases that literally extract themselves ultra smoothly. The gun will function normally with the extractor removed.
-Gas closed action. Lockup is accomplished by gas pressure on a piston below the barrel, gas enters the gas cylinder through a port just ahead of the chamber. As the action is gas closed, the hotter the load, the longer than action stays locked, due to higher pressure on the piston. The piston operates in the reverse of a conventional gas piston, it does not operate the gun, it keeps it closed, until pressure has dropped to safe levels and then the pistol cycles.
-Fixed barrel, as a result of the above gas closed action, the barrel can be fixed, resulting in literally stunning accuracy. The P7M8 is the most accurate handgun I've ever owned, edging out even my Kimber match gun, pictured in dissasembly comparison. I can shoot an honest 3" 5 round group at 25 yards in decent time with it, I've had benched groups half that with 147gr winclean no problem.
-Natural grip angle and sight picture, truly must be tried to know what I mean. Best pointing handgun I've used, and I've used many, many different handguns.
-Lowest bore axis I'm aware of in a semi automatic pistol, with a good grip there is extremely little muzzle rise, reference the slide off pic with the 1911 to see just how low the barrel is to the back of the grip.
-All steel, including the frame, SOLID guns.
-Remarkably complex operations accomplished with remarkably simple engineering.
-One button disassembly, into 3 main components. Slide, recoil spring, and frame.
Here is what the P7M8's gas piston looks like, gas pressure is exerted on the end, closing the action until pressure drops.
Here is the chamber flutes and gas port (small hole just ahead of fluteless chamber bottom):
A breakdown, field stripped, beside my Kimber:
Videos:
P7M8 disassembly, and cocking/trigger operation, me with my P7M8:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns6BBRLykto
1911 disassembly, me, with my Kimber, more intensive than P7M8 in that the mag's removed and slide racked to demonstrate clearing, but you get the idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv-h91tcEiE
I won't delve into the history of the P7, google tells the story better than I do anyhow, and while its service and past as a better mousetrap is interesting, it is the gun itself and its incredible design that interest me. Below I've included photos of the P7M8 and video of function and dissassembly (at bottom, check it out), and will outline features I find especially remarkable. The main concept I wish to address is its engineering, German to the core. Now, it gets an undeserved rap for being overly intricate and complicated, like many things German. The fact its action is gas closed, the case floats on gas and will extract and eject normally without the extractor, and the firing mechanism squeeze cocked, often leads to a natural conclusion that the pistol is over-engineered and complex. Not so; and I will demonstrate this. The P7M8 is considerably less complex than a 1911, and many other pistols. Its remarkable function is simply a result of simple design made to work flawlessly in form; true engineering.
Attributes of the P7M8:
-Squeeze cocked, squeezing the grip cocks the pistol, no external safeties and releasing the grip pressure puts the pistol to "safe".
-Striker fired, with a system much like a Glock, though the rearward striker movement is accomplished by the grip, with the trigger providing the release, unlike Glock's trigger only system. This results in a single action trigger pull every shot.
-Pistol is fully ambidextrous without any adjustment.
-Near vertical magazine well results in an extremely compact over all length of 6 1/2" or 167mm and fast mag drops.
-Hammer forged polygonally rifled barrel is long lived, extremely accurate, and provides slightly higher velocities than an equivalent length land and groove type conventional barrel.
-Simply squeeze the grip on a fresh mag and the slide drops and chambers a round.
-Chamber is fluted, the case floats on gas pressure created during firing, resulting in cases that literally extract themselves ultra smoothly. The gun will function normally with the extractor removed.
-Gas closed action. Lockup is accomplished by gas pressure on a piston below the barrel, gas enters the gas cylinder through a port just ahead of the chamber. As the action is gas closed, the hotter the load, the longer than action stays locked, due to higher pressure on the piston. The piston operates in the reverse of a conventional gas piston, it does not operate the gun, it keeps it closed, until pressure has dropped to safe levels and then the pistol cycles.
-Fixed barrel, as a result of the above gas closed action, the barrel can be fixed, resulting in literally stunning accuracy. The P7M8 is the most accurate handgun I've ever owned, edging out even my Kimber match gun, pictured in dissasembly comparison. I can shoot an honest 3" 5 round group at 25 yards in decent time with it, I've had benched groups half that with 147gr winclean no problem.
-Natural grip angle and sight picture, truly must be tried to know what I mean. Best pointing handgun I've used, and I've used many, many different handguns.
-Lowest bore axis I'm aware of in a semi automatic pistol, with a good grip there is extremely little muzzle rise, reference the slide off pic with the 1911 to see just how low the barrel is to the back of the grip.
-All steel, including the frame, SOLID guns.
-Remarkably complex operations accomplished with remarkably simple engineering.
-One button disassembly, into 3 main components. Slide, recoil spring, and frame.
Here is what the P7M8's gas piston looks like, gas pressure is exerted on the end, closing the action until pressure drops.
Here is the chamber flutes and gas port (small hole just ahead of fluteless chamber bottom):
A breakdown, field stripped, beside my Kimber:
Videos:
P7M8 disassembly, and cocking/trigger operation, me with my P7M8:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns6BBRLykto
1911 disassembly, me, with my Kimber, more intensive than P7M8 in that the mag's removed and slide racked to demonstrate clearing, but you get the idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv-h91tcEiE
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They are great pistols, just not convince gas operation is needed in any handgun calibre. It adds functional complexity and doesn't enhance service reliability, just one more thing to go wrong. But, that aside they are a very cool fire arm, and I wish I had one
