The Holy Grail
- Thread starter Suputin
- Start date
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
For anyone looking for a fantastic read regarding a scratch built, top quality 4 bore double rifle (cartridge) by a Canadian from the Yukon. He also takes it to Africa in the article.
http://www.cybertorpedo.com/africanhunter/firearms/4_bore_part01_01.htm
http://www.cybertorpedo.com/africanhunter/firearms/4_bore_part01_01.htm
If it puts me in hospital then I will wear that as a badge of honour.
Might I suggest a big piece of closed cell foam between the butt and your shoulder? Might make a big difference.
Oh, btw, we want to see video of this event!
The only thing that concerns me is that I dislocated my shoulder a couple years back in a motorcycle accident. I just don't want to have to go through that experience again cause if freakin HURTS!
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
As someone who shoots 'little' guns in comparison to this, .375 H&H, .450-400 Nitro, let me just say this is a BAD idea. A piece of blue closed cell camping matt might work for a .338 Win Mag for some guys with recoil sensitivity off the bench if they need it, but it could mean wearing dentures if you do it with a gun that produces real recoil. This beast will, but it won't be as vicious as many think, I'm sure, being black powder, so heavy, and such low velocity. I'd expect to have the barrel jumped to the sky, a slight rotation of the torso, all with one big push. None of the violent, sharp smack of a .500 bolt action cartridge, just an almighty shove, hang onto that forearm.
As someone who shoots 'little' guns in comparison to this, .375 H&H, .450-400 Nitro, let me just say this is a BAD idea. A piece of blue closed cell camping matt might work for a .338 Win Mag for some guys with recoil sensitivity off the bench if they need it, but it could mean wearing dentures if you do it with a gun that produces real recoil. This beast will, but it won't be as vicious as many think, I'm sure, being black powder, so heavy, and such low velocity. I'd expect to have the barrel jumped to the sky, a slight rotation of the torso, all with one big push. None of the violent, sharp smack of a .500 bolt action cartridge, just an almighty shove, hang onto that forearm.
So, why is the foam a bad idea? Do you think the gun will slip off the foam and knock out his teeth?
I bought a foam recoil pad to put on my Jungle Carbine years ago, it made it much more bearable.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Exactly, on a .303, which has near nil recoil in the big picture, foam will stay in place. My guess is, this old gun will have a leather, steel, or plain wood butt. Putting plastic between you and it is a poor idea from a dental and facial aesthetics point of view.
Even on a .450-400 Nitro, a pipsqueek in comparison, foam's going to make the gun squirm under the recoil load, and you don't want that. Even poorly secured recoil pads can shear off the big nitros, let alone foam. All you want between you and a big gun is a well fitted shirt or shooting jacket that won't slip. You'll see most large calibre African guns have checkered butts, or in modern guns, grippy recoil pads. There's a reason... don't try putting foam in between.
For reference, your jungle carbine might recoil with an extremely mild 14 or 15 ft-lbs of recoil energy, and a recoil velocity of a touch over 11 fps or so. This 4 bore will likely generate 140 ft-lbs of recoil energy, and a recoil velocity of 20 fps or a hair more. Ten times the recoil energy, and double the velocity (sharpness), which isn't bad for such a big gun, on par with a standard nitro express in recoil velocity. Lessons from a jungle carbine mean literally zilch in the big bore world, and after you shoot a nitro for the first time, your Lee Enfield will come into perspective. Heck, even .338 Win Mag, and .375 H&H start feeling light compared to the real magnums. It's all perspective.
Even on a .450-400 Nitro, a pipsqueek in comparison, foam's going to make the gun squirm under the recoil load, and you don't want that. Even poorly secured recoil pads can shear off the big nitros, let alone foam. All you want between you and a big gun is a well fitted shirt or shooting jacket that won't slip. You'll see most large calibre African guns have checkered butts, or in modern guns, grippy recoil pads. There's a reason... don't try putting foam in between.
For reference, your jungle carbine might recoil with an extremely mild 14 or 15 ft-lbs of recoil energy, and a recoil velocity of a touch over 11 fps or so. This 4 bore will likely generate 140 ft-lbs of recoil energy, and a recoil velocity of 20 fps or a hair more. Ten times the recoil energy, and double the velocity (sharpness), which isn't bad for such a big gun, on par with a standard nitro express in recoil velocity. Lessons from a jungle carbine mean literally zilch in the big bore world, and after you shoot a nitro for the first time, your Lee Enfield will come into perspective. Heck, even .338 Win Mag, and .375 H&H start feeling light compared to the real magnums. It's all perspective.
It would make more sense to me to start with a reduced load of say 200 gr of 1F and work up. I have a 5 guage smooth rifle and shoot 230 gr of 1F plus a 1200 gr .935 ball out of it. The gun weighs about 14 lbs and has significant recoil but does not fly over my shoulder. You do have to be careful to hold your head back a bit and not get your right thumb too close to your nose.
I would also think it prudent to check the back of a Dixie catalogue or in WW Greener's The Gun for the service charge base on the measured bore diameter of the gun and for the appropriate class. Baker and others seemed at times to almost shoot proof charges out of their guns.
cheers mooncoon
I would also think it prudent to check the back of a Dixie catalogue or in WW Greener's The Gun for the service charge base on the measured bore diameter of the gun and for the appropriate class. Baker and others seemed at times to almost shoot proof charges out of their guns.
cheers mooncoon
Okay Ardent. I'm listening and learning. 140 ft/lbs of energy eh?
How do detached retinas and nerve damage sound?
I think I'll sit about 100 feet away sipping a beer and watch someone else shoot it...
How do detached retinas and nerve damage sound?
I think I'll sit about 100 feet away sipping a beer and watch someone else shoot it...
Exactly, on a .303, which has near nil recoil in the big picture, foam will stay in place. My guess is, this old gun will have a leather, steel, or plain wood butt. Putting plastic between you and it is a poor idea from a dental and facial aesthetics point of view.
Even on a .450-400 Nitro, a pipsqueek in comparison, foam's going to make the gun squirm under the recoil load, and you don't want that. Even poorly secured recoil pads can shear off the big nitros, let alone foam. All you want between you and a big gun is a well fitted shirt or shooting jacket that won't slip. You'll see most large calibre African guns have checkered butts, or in modern guns, grippy recoil pads. There's a reason... don't try putting foam in between.
For reference, your jungle carbine might recoil with an extremely mild 14 or 15 ft-lbs of recoil energy, and a recoil velocity of a touch over 11 fps or so. This 4 bore will likely generate 140 ft-lbs of recoil energy, and a recoil velocity of 20 fps or a hair more. Ten times the recoil energy, and double the velocity (sharpness), which isn't bad for such a big gun, on par with a standard nitro express in recoil velocity. Lessons from a jungle carbine mean literally zilch in the big bore world, and after you shoot a nitro for the first time, your Lee Enfield will come into perspective. Heck, even .338 Win Mag, and .375 H&H start feeling light compared to the real magnums. It's all perspective.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Butch Searcy will build you a nitro cartridge 4 bore double rifle, yours only $85,000... base price. Actually a good deal for what it is, IF you have a need for "what it is". ...does anybody?
The rifle in the video Cantom posted and the write up that Ardent linked to are the same rifle that WR1894 mentioned firing. I have seen a few videos of it being shot and handled the loaded cartridges. I refer to those beasts as "two steppers", since the recoil tends to make you take at least two steps backward - either that or end up on your butt on the ground. I haven't had the chance to shoot it, and I would really have to think long and hard before I decided whether I would or not. I tend to think I might end up sitting beside Cantom holding a nice comfortable Lee Enfield while watching the others give themselves concussions.
