the side by side you like, and why?

eltorro

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I just talked to a friend and he motivated the superiority of the sxs shotgun , compared to all others, but his argument focused on the advantages over the o/u.
he also said 20ga is better than 12 for upland....

Why do you think (that's if you do..) that the sXs is better?
 
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I advise you not to purchase a sxs or an o/u it will become an expensive life long obsession..... As far as upland goes I like the sxs in 16 bore.
 
Tools are tools. It doesn't make much sense to use a torque wrench when what you need is a screwdriver. Shotguns are tools.

The SxS is the best tool for an instinctive ("snap shot") style of shooting, most often employed in upland game hunting situations. However, not every SxS is designed as an upland hunting tool. Many American SxS's were designed with duck hunting in mind, and they do not lend themselves to instinctive shooting techniques. A snap shooting tool is finely balanced and designed to be very quick to shoulder. The gun sits very low in the hands and makes for a natural pointer. In order for the gun to shoot where the hunter is looking, it is critical that the gun stock fit the shooter. Unless you are ordering a new SxS and can specify the stock dimensions for length, drop and cast, it is likely that you will have to modify the stock to fit. Many methods can be used to do this, from actually reshaping the wood to adding pads and leather strips. If the gun does not properly fit the shooter, then every snap shot will miss, as the hunter has no time to make corrections or adjust for the fit of the gun (instinctive shooting, remember).

Given a finely balanced SxS with a properly fitted stock there is no better tool for taking fast flushing pheasants, wild grouse or any other game which takes the hunter by surprise.

If you are pass shooting ducks or geese, or shooting at clay targets where the trajectory is somewhat known, then a more deliberate style of shooting is employed and the advantages of the SxS are diminished.

As for the gauge debate, stop looking at the size of the barrel and start looking at the loads you are shooting. You may shoot a 20 gauge with 1 oz. loads, or a 12 gauge with the same amount of shot. In this case the 12 gauge should be the better choice, because all other things being equal the 12 gauge will throw a better pattern. However, if you are shooting 1 1/8 oz. of shot out of the 12 gauge, and 7/8 oz. of shot from the 20 then all the 12 gauge does is throw more pellets and chew up the bird. The 20 offers lighter shells and a lighter gun, both of which are desirable in an upland situation. Choke selection also enters into the equation. Many upland hunters swear by their 20 gauges because they are using a light gun with chokes suited to the game and distance. In reality a lightweight 12 gauge with open chokes and light loads will accomplish the same thing, but may be harder to find. Few people seem interested in non - magnum 12 gauges these days.

SxS's have the weight of tradition with them, and few other designs have the graceful proportions inherent in a properly constructed double. The history, design, weight and balance of a "game gun" are hard to beat. They are, however, still tools.

In the end, it is still the best strategy to use the best tool for the job at hand. If your friend is talking strictly in the context of upland hunting, and is referring to the traditional style "game gun" when referring to SxS's, and understands the concept and criticality of gun fit, then he is (IMHO) correct. If he is talking in broad generalities, giving one type of gun an advantage in all situations, then he doesn't understand the tools. Just for the record, I am an ardent proponent of SxS game guns.

Sharptail
 
Personal opinion only – given the appropriate hunting conditions (read prominently Upland) there is no better tool than an sxs. The o/u (and I do have several always take second place). Having said that, statements as such may well lead to incessant debates and I have no wish to start one here :D . Therefore, no offence to the multiples of very experienced and equally efficient sportsmen (and women) who excel in the use of a variety of shotguns other than a side-by-side :)

As so elaborately expressed by Sharptail (and whose opinions I always enjoy viewing), the "magic" :) of Wingshooting does come to surface specifically more so, IMHO, when there is a properly fitted sxs wielded with experience and correct habits behind it.

The choice of an appropriate bore, well, in many ways will be mostly dictated according to the hunting situations that one may commonly encounter.
 
eltorro said:
I just talked to a friend and he motivated the superiority of the sxs shotgun , compared to all others, but his argument focused on the advantages over the o/u.
he also said 20ga is better than 12 for upland....

Why do you think (that's if you do..) that the sXs is better?
I like the sxs but would never think it's necessarily "better."

Sharptail's post covers all the bases and then some.

For me while I like the sxs I have hunted upland with every configuration without complaint. My sxs is in the traditional English pattern, custom fitted, 12 gauge choked skeet and light modified and my loads are 1 ounce or 1-1/8ounce.

But I could just as easily hunt with a 20 gauge o/u and have many times. I'd rather have it than a single-trigger sxs with a pistol grip and beaver tail forend.
 
Claybuster said:
I'd rather have it than a single-trigger sxs with a pistol grip and beaver tail forend.

I do own one such shotgun, an SKB 200E that I picked up in in unfired condition last year. Admittedly, the forend (when gripped) does feel more like a side of half sliced piece of bamboo :D but it does perform well in the field.
 
I won't say that a SxS is better than an O/U, it's what feels better to you. As far as a 20 being better than a 12, they are, so's a 28. But not because what your thinking. I like them better for a bird gun, because I hunt grouse in the mountains. I walk a long ways, and the lighter the gun, the better. The twelve definatly has the advantage in pattern density, and all but one of my shotguns currently is a twelve gauge of one shell length or another. But there's somthing about a sweet little 20 or 28 on a crisp fall morning, nestled in your hand. I should also point out, and this is only my opinion, but the O/U is our gun. By that, I mean the traditional European gun is the SxS. The traditional North American gun is the stack barrel. I know, that's not totally true, as they have O/U and we have SxS guns. But as far as the most popular type guns, the O/U seems to be the better seller here. I like the single sighting plane of the O/U myself, but I find the SxS guns far easier to load. But when it comes right down to it, it's all personal preference, and a shotgun that fits your personal style is what's most important. Good luck.
 
The traditional English-style double is a beautiful study in ergonomics, function defining form, minimalism, aesthetics, craftsmanship, grace, beauty, and the hand of God.

Need I say more?
 
I love high end English Best guns in sub gauges (20, 16, 28). But I can afford Remington. I would love to own a Winchester model 21 16 gauge bored skeet 1 and skeet 2. (26" tubes....) I can dream can't I?

cheers Darryl
 
I like them, they look purdier that a pump Remi... My dad gave me one when I turned 14, it's got lots of miles on it and I've shot countless hungarians, grouse, woodcock, ducks, with it. It's a Browning, never knew the model but a joy to swing at an identified flying object.

Troutseeker
 
I like Sharptail's explanation, too.

Claybuster touched on another aspect that, to me, is very important in snap-shooting hunting situations - double triggers.

While the traditional SxS usually comes with fixed chokes, some newer models are equipped with screw-in chokes. Regardless of whether the chokes are fixed or removable, unless they are identical in both barrels, a 2 trigger design has a significant advantage over the single-trigger variety in that you have virtually instantaneous choke selection. In an instinctive hunting scenario this is a distinct advantage.

If you're like me, you seldom chamber the same loads in both barrels. This allows you to "configure" one barrel with a more open choke, lighter loads, and smaller shot. The other barrel would typically employ a more restrictive choke, heavier load, and larger shot size.

Granted there's a short learning curve while you get used to double triggers, but it isn't difficult to master and the result is an even more specialized tool for upland fun.

In expressing this opinion, I am in no way suggesting that single trigger shotguns are inferior in any way - only that, in certain circumstances, double triggers have advantages, IMHO. Another setup that I like for upland is a pump gun with a light load in the chamber and heavier loads in the magasine. This doesn't give you the flexibility to go with a heavier load on your first shot like double triggers does, though.

SS
 
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Grouse Man said:
The traditional English-style double is a beautiful study in ergonomics, function defining form, minimalism, aesthetics, craftsmanship, grace, beauty, and the hand of God.

Need I say more?
It's also more traditional to be sittin' on the porch with a nice SxS in your lap when some young feller comes a courtin' your daughter:D
 
Mudpuppy said:
It's also more traditional to be sittin' on the porch with a nice SxS in your lap when some young feller comes a courtin' your daughter:D

Even more appropriate if that sxs had exposed hammers on it :D
 
straightshooter said:
I. In expressing this opinion, I am in no way suggesting that single trigger shotguns are inferior in any way - only that, in certain circumstances, double triggers have advantages, IMHO. SS

Heck, I'd go for double triggers over a single any time.....despite all the rapid advancement of technology.
 
Thanks gentlemen, I am ejoying the reach information that you have posted.
For the ones that are poorer (guess who...), any of the new ones strike you as getting close to the said ideal sxs? Stoeger Uplander, CZ Bobwhite ?
 
Best of the breed circa $1,000 is the CZ. Much nicer than the Stoegers. I found the CZ a little portly in 12 gauge but the 20 I looked at seemed nice.
 
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