Theseus' Antique Flintlock: How much can you replace?

[zxcv]

Simple question:

If I buy an old beat up flintlock pistol, how much of it can be replaced before it's not considered "antique" any more? On an antique revolver, I'm assuming the frame is what is considered the "firearm", but with muzzleloaders, what part is considered the firearm?

In other words, can I replace all of the parts lock, stock and barrel and still have an antique? Or is, say, the lock considered the "firearm" and must remain original?

Thanks,

Theseus

 

[mooncoon]

It is the barrel and breachplug combined which constitute the frame or receiver on most muzzle loaders. I have that somewhere in a letter from the RCMP superintendent who was in charge of the registration program in the late 90s

cheers mooncoon

 

[englishman_ca]

Reminds me of the school janitor who.had the same.push broom for twenty years. It had six handles and twelve heads but still was his original broom that he started the job with.

In the antique furnature business you can get away with one third replacement parts and still be considered antique

 

[H Wally]

I think this thread happend a week or two ago... ended up that there is no true answer, but odds are that the CFC will err on the side of calling it modern rather than giving the benefit of the doubt. The wide range of designs means that it's on a case by case basis. As mooncoon says, breech plug/barrel... ditto if it's a single piece design, probably ditto if it's a hook breach, but not so clearcut there.... I wouldn't push it though.

P.S. Not sure why the thread has theseus in the title... but if your intent is to push the boundaries, I think it would be better titled as the Icarus gun Don't fly too close to the sun/cfc or they'll melt your wings/take your gun

 

[zxcv]

So if it's the barrel/breechplug, then that means antiques can never be rebarrelled?

 

[H Wally]

So if it's the barrel/breechplug, then that means antiques can never be rebarrelled?

Depends - what kind of antique are you talking about?

For a flintlock or percussion pistol that does not have a frame/reciever, then theoretically it might not be able to be rebarreled. It could possibly be sleeved/lined though. Question is.... if it's that bad... is it worth reworking/safe to rework?

This is all theoretical however, since dicking around too close to the rules without the ability to take it to court with a very good (expensive) lawyer will simply get it reclassified as antique/prohib and possibly hurt our antique laws.

 

[Ol' Flinter]

I don't believe there is a set answer to this question: "antique" is in the eye of the beholder. However, "antique" status for a flint pistol, in the eyes of the CFC is irrelevant wrt whether it must be registered. Because it is not intended to be fired from the shoulder and is less than 26" overall length, it must be registered as a "Restricted".

 

[zxcv]

P.S. Not sure why the thread has theseus in the title... but if your intent is to push the boundaries, I think it would be better titled as the Icarus gun Don't fly too close to the sun/cfc or they'll melt your wings/take your gun

Google Theseus. He had a ship with a similar problem.

And I like your poem, it rings very true.

 

[tiriaq]

I don't believe there is a set answer to this question: "antique" is in the eye of the beholder. However, "antique" status for a flint pistol, in the eyes of the CFC is irrelevant wrt whether it must be registered. Because it is not intended to be fired from the shoulder and is less than 26" overall length, it must be registered as a "Restricted".

If made after 1897.

 

[10x]

It is the barrel and breachplug combined which constitute the frame or receiver on most muzzle loaders. I have that somewhere in a letter from the RCMP superintendent who was in charge of the registration program in the late 90s

cheers mooncoon

That is just an opinion - there is no definition in either the firearms act or criminal code regarding the "frame" of a muzzle loading rifle.

 

[H Wally]

That is just an opinion - there is no definition in either the firearms act or criminal code regarding the "frame" of a muzzle loading rifle.

I think the twist on that is that because there is no definition, it's up to whatever upper level verifier or firearms officer to decide on his or her own, hence mooncoon's getting written opinion.

Either way, dicking with the rules probably isn't advised unless you have the resources to fight that one hard and win.

 

[Musketfire]

Pre-1897 = antique

Post 1897= same as colt 1911...and yes I think its silly aswell but thats the law

We are all in a way responsible for our hobby/passion so being accountable and working --within-- the legal limits allowed us, protects the hobby we all so enjoy!

If your antique flintlocks barrel is marked ----pedersoli, made in italy or spain---- the CFC might get suspicious eh..

So please use your discretion and err on the side of caution so we can all enjoy ourselves responsibly,safely and in accordance with the law.

 

[10x]

I think the twist on that is that because there is no definition, it's up to whatever upper level verifier or firearms officer to decide on his or her own, hence mooncoon's getting written opinion.

Either way, dicking with the rules probably isn't advised unless you have the resources to fight that one hard and win.

It boils down to the theater that is held in court and who has the best delivery in front of the judge, and then the personal opinion of the judge.
Bottom line - the results in a courtroom are totally unpredictable in spite of any "evidence".