Thinking of building a hydraulic swage press
- Thread starter rumrunner64
- Start date
The normal way of going about that is to actually have some idea of how they are made and why, and to have a 'better' idea. No?
Hydraulic swage presses are not exactly thick on the ground. Neither are manual presses.
I'm maybe being uncharitable to say so, but if you have to ask where to buy the parts, you likely are not going to get very far with this.
Cheers
Trev
Hydraulic swage presses are not exactly thick on the ground. Neither are manual presses.
I'm maybe being uncharitable to say so, but if you have to ask where to buy the parts, you likely are not going to get very far with this.
Cheers
Trev
Uncharitable is a understatement.
I have been swaging my own projectiles for years. I own presses made by Dave Corbin and RCE Richard Corbin. I also have made a pneumatic press. I think i have some ides on how it is done.
I know where to get parts and how to make it. I ask for input from other.
If you do not want to partake in it then don't.
I have been swaging my own projectiles for years. I own presses made by Dave Corbin and RCE Richard Corbin. I also have made a pneumatic press. I think i have some ides on how it is done.
I know where to get parts and how to make it. I ask for input from other.
If you do not want to partake in it then don't.
OP......... why hydraulics? and not pneumatics?....just wondering
handofzeus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Trout Creekish Ontario.
The only drawback I see with either hydraulic or pneumatic is lack of tactile feedback. It doesn't take a lot of force to crumple a case neck or bugger-up a bullet while seating. It's remarkable what little signals you get through feedback from actually handling the lever on a press.
ght.
Yes you are right.
I would be using the hydraulic more for making jackets, and core seating with pressure set. That way I can a consistent core weight. Bit yes I plan on doing my point forming by hand.
You're right, of course. Never thought of that one. I better get a bigger compressor before attempting it.
Thanks
Awright.
Consider the question from this end, in a place (CGN) where a bunch of dreaming but otherwise ignorant and unqualified kids have over the years posted similar questions.
Since you have some actual experience, you might actually get somewhere with it.
It is worth establishing that sort of thing upfront, though you did not seem to consider that. Y'all note the quality advice you were getting over on castboolits from the fellas that were pretty convinced you need pneumatic not hydraulic?
In any case, one of many places I would check in, is on the practicalmachinist site. There are a bunch of guys there, that aside from being decent machinists, have a bunch of experience in motion control hardware and software. Like as not, a programmable control with interlock settings is available. Or you could learn how to program an Arduino/Raspberry PI/Beaglebone typemicro computer to run it for you, but I'm thinking probably not.
How complicated do you wish to make this press?
To be perfectly clear, my experience was in aircraft hydraulics. I spent a great deal of my life troubleshooting hydraulic landing gear systems and working with assorted means of interlocking same, both mechanical and electrical/electronic
The press itself is a simple cylinder and hydraulic power pack. The controls and safeties are where you are going to really make or break the deal, and depending upon how complicated or simple (and subsequently dangerous) you want to make the unit be.
In my best assessment, a fella could do a lot worse than to have the capability of being able to have a programmable timer on the hydraulics to program dwell time. A two switch safety system to keep hands out of the system would be wise. Or a safety interlock on a cover. Pretty certain the Corbin Hydraulic machine uses two separate finger switches for the deadman.
A programmable control capable of reading the pressure as well as programming dwell time would be stylin'. Less than that would be simpler.
Cheers
Trev
Awright.
Consider the question from this end, in a place (CGN) where a bunch of dreaming but otherwise ignorant and unqualified kids have over the years posted similar questions.
Since you have some actual experience, you might actually get somewhere with it.
It is worth establishing that sort of thing upfront, though you did not seem to consider that. Y'all note the quality advice you were getting over on castboolits from the fellas that were pretty convinced you need pneumatic not hydraulic?
In any case, one of many places I would check in, is on the practicalmachinist site. There are a bunch of guys there, that aside from being decent machinists, have a bunch of experience in motion control hardware and software. Like as not, a programmable control with interlock settings is available. Or you could learn how to program an Arduino/Raspberry PI/Beaglebone typemicro computer to run it for you, but I'm thinking probably not.
How complicated do you wish to make this press?
To be perfectly clear, my experience was in aircraft hydraulics. I spent a great deal of my life troubleshooting hydraulic landing gear systems and working with assorted means of interlocking same, both mechanical and electrical/electronic
The press itself is a simple cylinder and hydraulic power pack. The controls and safeties are where you are going to really make or break the deal, and depending upon how complicated or simple (and subsequently dangerous) you want to make the unit be.
In my best assessment, a fella could do a lot worse than to have the capability of being able to have a programmable timer on the hydraulics to program dwell time. A two switch safety system to keep hands out of the system would be wise. Or a safety interlock on a cover. Pretty certain the Corbin Hydraulic machine uses two separate finger switches for the deadman.
A programmable control capable of reading the pressure as well as programming dwell time would be stylin'. Less than that would be simpler.
Cheers
Trev
Hi Trev,
I feel stupid...........
An Instrument tech. for 23 years and never heard of those PLC's (bolded above), are they dedicated? specialized for certain applications?
The names I work with are Allen Bradly, Koyo, Mitsubishi, Siemens,etc.
Any help would be appreciated.
Not industrial PLC's. Hobby mini computers on a small card, cheap, and with a pretty broad user base in among the hands-on hobbyists.
An industrial control would be a much better bet, I suspect, but I have zero for knowledge base or experience in that area other than knowing 'of' the stuff being out there, thus the suggestion to put it past some guys that do.
Cheers
Trev
For cheap, simple controllers, I would look at the Pololu stuff. They have relay and MOSFET boards that interface to them, that could drive stuff like solonoid valves.
Most electrical parts and stuff like proximity sensors or switches for your limits can be bought at Digikey.
McMaster Carr has tons of mechanical parts and fasteners. If you want to get really crazy, go to SDP/SI.
Most electrical parts and stuff like proximity sensors or switches for your limits can be bought at Digikey.
McMaster Carr has tons of mechanical parts and fasteners. If you want to get really crazy, go to SDP/SI.
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Understood.
Now, I do have some questions regarding the equipment recommended.
Should I start another thread? or PM the poster?
I dont want highjack this one................
Now, I do have some questions regarding the equipment recommended.
Should I start another thread? or PM the poster?
I dont want highjack this one................
<cough> Horse puckey!
Provide something useful or wander off.
Rumrunner,you have die sets already that you wish to use, yeah?
So those will define the dimensions of the mechanical aspects of the assembly.
The reason I suggested a control in the first place is that there have been a couple different guys mentioned on two different forums, that they got measurable differences in their bullets depending on how fast or how consistently they went on the lever. The one gent (on the Saubier Small caliber Forum, IIRC) stated that he got the most consistent results by using the same timing, essentially a one-two-three count with the lever at full compression, before carrying on.
A control timer seems to me the answer to that. once you set it to what you feel works, then it will do same same same, with the results being, hopefully, bullets that are same same same, without having to concentrate on it too much.
A programmable control would also give you settings to write down for the next go round that particular bullet, too.
Or does that not seem on?
It is interesting to me to see that the other guys here are from quite different experience base directions. kombayotch is shopping parts from what looks to me to be a hobby robotics background, cet from and industrial controls one.
As a sidenote, how many Corbin hydraulic presses, do y'all think actually think made it in to Canada? The few fellas I have met that were into the custom bullet making gig, were not exactly the 'internet' demographic, if you know what I mean.
Cheers
Trev
I have 3 different thread pasterns. Corbin H and S and RCE. Which is OK I have adapters to use the smaller ones in the bigger press. For this press I would go with the RCE dies that is 1 1/2" x 12. I think they are a stronger die, and they are cheaper then Corbin's.
For me I am not very good with electronics, mechanical is to more to my liking. When it come to computers, when they start to ### up, I buy a new one. I do see where you are going with it, and sounds to me to be the better way to go for consistent results.
Unless there is a plug and play component that I could buy.
What I have been thinking is a cylinders with 8" of travel, two push button switches with a pressure valve and gauge. That way I can set the pressure where I want it. Send the ram up for as long as I like, then back down. Some times simple is better. For me anyways.
Also not looking to spend 2-3k on this. If I was I would just buy RCE's for $3500.00 and not have to do all the work.
For me I am not very good with electronics, mechanical is to more to my liking. When it come to computers, when they start to ### up, I buy a new one. I do see where you are going with it, and sounds to me to be the better way to go for consistent results.
Unless there is a plug and play component that I could buy.
What I have been thinking is a cylinders with 8" of travel, two push button switches with a pressure valve and gauge. That way I can set the pressure where I want it. Send the ram up for as long as I like, then back down. Some times simple is better. For me anyways.
Also not looking to spend 2-3k on this. If I was I would just buy RCE's for $3500.00 and not have to do all the work.
Rumrunner64, Trev, thank you for encouraging new ideas and participation.
I may not contribute much, but here goes.
As Trev mentioned, my background is industrial instrumentation (sorry about that).
I'm very interested in this idea of automating a press, however, all of my experiance is with pneumatics, so I will take that direction.
For control I would use a small PLC with built-in 120 VAC relay output, 24DC input for sensors and switches $125 http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...tLogic_05_(Micro_Brick_PLC)/PLC_Units/D0-05DR
This digital readout pressure switch can be panel mounted and accepts an analog input if needed (-14 to 145 PSI) is $69 http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Pneumatic_Components/Digital_Pressure_Switches_-z-
_Transmitters/QPSH-AP-42
To make the piston go up and down a 5 port solenoid valve (24 DC same as PLC) at $21
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...d_-z-_Manifold_(AVS-5,AM_Series)/AVS-5212-24D
The same company also sells cylinders and everything else you may need. One very conveniant thing about this place, is that
they are excellent at identifing which parts fit which component, a lot less guess work.
Anyways, I left out a lot of other small items I will use, tubing, connectors, wire, etc. but, if you look on the
website, you can buy it all there, or scrounge it.
I'm lucky, I happen to have a small PVC control panel and a foot switch on hand.
I think this may be doable for about $300 to $400
Now for the REALLY hard part, the mechanical side. I"M LOST !!!!!! I dont know where to start !!!
Do I need to use a lever for mechanical advantage and keep the stroke short?
Or do I use a cylinder with a full stoke?
Do I use a rotary action to control top of stroke? or back and forth?
Do I control the pressure to the cylinder or the travel distance?
Are the parts Trev recommended cheaper? better? easier to work with?
So many questions, thank God for CGN !!!!!
I may not contribute much, but here goes.
As Trev mentioned, my background is industrial instrumentation (sorry about that).
I'm very interested in this idea of automating a press, however, all of my experiance is with pneumatics, so I will take that direction.
For control I would use a small PLC with built-in 120 VAC relay output, 24DC input for sensors and switches $125 http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...tLogic_05_(Micro_Brick_PLC)/PLC_Units/D0-05DR
This digital readout pressure switch can be panel mounted and accepts an analog input if needed (-14 to 145 PSI) is $69 http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Shopping/Catalog/Pneumatic_Components/Digital_Pressure_Switches_-z-
_Transmitters/QPSH-AP-42
To make the piston go up and down a 5 port solenoid valve (24 DC same as PLC) at $21
http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...d_-z-_Manifold_(AVS-5,AM_Series)/AVS-5212-24D
The same company also sells cylinders and everything else you may need. One very conveniant thing about this place, is that
they are excellent at identifing which parts fit which component, a lot less guess work.
Anyways, I left out a lot of other small items I will use, tubing, connectors, wire, etc. but, if you look on the
website, you can buy it all there, or scrounge it.
I'm lucky, I happen to have a small PVC control panel and a foot switch on hand.
I think this may be doable for about $300 to $400
Now for the REALLY hard part, the mechanical side. I"M LOST !!!!!! I dont know where to start !!!
Do I need to use a lever for mechanical advantage and keep the stroke short?
Or do I use a cylinder with a full stoke?
Do I use a rotary action to control top of stroke? or back and forth?
Do I control the pressure to the cylinder or the travel distance?
Are the parts Trev recommended cheaper? better? easier to work with?
So many questions, thank God for CGN !!!!!
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