Thinking of shooting again, and looking for advice.

Lojak

Lojak

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First, hello to everyone at CGN! As this is my first post, so I'll introduce myself. I used to target shoot, but quit ~15 years ago after I had two major spinal surgeries. I've really missed the sport, and I'm seriously thinking of taking it up again. If I do, I am looking at precision target shooting. I'd join the ORA as well as a few clubs within range of the GTA (Silverdale has been recommended to me). Anyway, I've given a lot of consideration to the caliber, because the amount of recoil is something I have to concern myself with. No use taking up the sport if it breaks me, so to speak, and the .223 seems to fit my needs and intentions right now. I am budgeting $2500 for this hobby over the next year, which would include memberships, the firearm, optics, ammo. So, with that, onto the meat of this message.

After a fair bit of research, the Remington 700 series seems to be the most cost-effective as an entry-level rifle. Since I will probably be firing .223, at ranges of between 300-500 yards, I know I'll need a barrel that can handle heavier rounds, ~70-90 grains. That means a barrel with a twist of 1:9 for the lighter rounds, and 1:6 for the heaviest. Therefore I have a few questions:

1. Are there factory loads in .223 of those weights that I can use to re-familiarize myself with the sport, before I invest in a proper reloading kit?

2. Are those rounds readily available in the GTA, or should I order off the web?

3. Am I better off buying a basic 700SPS and having the barrel upgraded to one with the correct twist, or spending my hard earned money on a 700P or LTR?

4. Since the rifle is going to be a work in progress, and I'll be re-familiarizing myself with shooting as I go, I do not want to drop a lot of money on optics right away. Given that winter is coming, I don't expect to spend a lot of time on a large outdoor range, so I'll be shooting within the 100-300 yard range. What starter optics would you recommend? FWIW, I'm partial to mildot style reticles.

Thanks :)

-- Stephen.
 
Welcome to CGN. Glad to see you are getting back into shooting.

If you are going with a 700 and plan to rebarrel it, buy the least expensive one with a good stock. A 1:7" twist will stabilize the heavy bullets and will still work with the light ones. With a 1:9" twist you can shoot the 75 gr bullets out to 1000 yards with success.

As far as readily availible or locally availible match ammo goes, nothing beats handloads. For the price of 10 boxes of match ammo, you can set yourself up with all the goodies you need to roll your own.

I would also look at Savage rifles in .223.

I can't help you out much about scopes, I am an iron sight TR shooter.
 
Suggest you consider a Savage. Out of the box, these rifles shoot very well and have the 9 twist allowing you to push 75gr Amax/Bergers very effectively. The factory trigger is also one of the best I have used.

There are a few in 223 in the EE right now that might be of interest.

You should have no problem getting a Savage with great optics for well under $1500. Thinking around $1000 - 1200 if you don't mind a used scope.

consider the BVSS version as the stock is great for prone/sling shooting and F class is also a possibility. Otherwise, there are many stock options.

If you look a few pages back, you will find a post where I pushed a rebarreled STevens in 223 to a mile. The overall cost of the project was low and the performance high. This one has a Choate Varminter stock. Bulky, heavy and very nice shooting prone off rests.

As for optics, consider the Bushnell Elite 4200 family of scopes. I compete with the 6x24 AO w/mildot reticle. A little light on elevation but more then enough for the distances you plan on shooting. Optics and mechanicals are superb and you can find used ones for around $450.

If you want a side focus scope, the Elite tactical and 6500 are great value. As are Nikon monarchs.

There is tons of info on rifle options in the many posts on this forum and other sites.

Welcome back and good luck with your shooting. The white box Win bulk varmint ammo usually shoots well in Savages, however, I strongly recommend you start reloading. Cheaper and much more accurate.

Jerry
 
Welcome!

I applaud your choice of caliber and I think that you have given yourself a reasonable budget to get going.

The single biggest contributors to accuracy from an equipment point of view are your barrel and its chamber. A fairly austere rifle with a match grade barrel will have all the potential to be as accurate as you want.

If the barrel is incapable of putting all your shots into a very tight group, then how will you ever learn from your mistakes? How do you know if the shot that hit 3" away was a "flyer" or an unseen condition?

My suggestion (and remember what you paid) would be to buy a used rifle that has already been accurized. As time and interest grows, I guarantee you will want to add and tweak anyway so save the taxes and get a good platform on which to build.

Mysticplayer has done amazing things with inexpensive components... Spend your sheckles where they count! Barrel-Bedding-Bullets.

Cheers!

Ian
 
I'm finally going to say it. I have no problem with the 700, in fact, I think they are a good rifle and can be worked into a great one. However, the issue I have is the cost. A SPS costs $600 and all you are going to use is the action. Then you need a pro to true it. If you go with a PT&G oversized bolt that's another $200. Getting very close to $1000 for a very good customed 700 action, why not buy a real custom action from the start?

Then there is the Savage. Its a strong and very safe action, more so than many realize. The bolt head floats and the threads and lugs are milled in the same machine set up and as a result are true to each other from factory. The face is off a bit but doesn't seem to effect group size, just sighting in. The lock time on a Savage is extremely fast btw, 1.65ms compared to a 700 at 2.6ms. For $300 you get a Stevens 200. It does not NEED to be trued. You can have a pro install a barrel shouldered style and if so he can true the face of the action for a very minimal charge. Or, you can get a quality barrel chambered and prethreaded and use the nut. The Stevens 200 is HUNDREDS of dollars cheaper and shoots just as good as a 700. On a personal note, if I build another rifle for precision work it will need to beat my current un-trued Stevens 200 and I cannot expect a trued 700 doing that. Conversly, if my current rig was a trued 700, then I would not pick a Stevens 200 to replace it, again a full custom would be picked.

If you want a stiff action with a tight slick bolt, do yourself a big favor and go custom. Think of the big picture and final price of the rig. I'm not here to sway you either way because it really doesn't matter so long as you get out to the range and have fun.

Oh and yeah, you need to reload.

Cheers,
Rob
 
Thank you very much for all your input. Having the internet as a resource now makes like much easier now than before.

The insights into Savage really struck a chord, and I have spent the last day researching their rifles, and I must say I'm much more impressed than I was. The 700 is the rifle most folks mention, and it is refreshing to know there are other options out their for (essentially) a warmed-over shooter starting over. After quite a bit of reading and thought, the 10FP is looking more and more like a reasonable way to go. I don't have access to EE yet (I submitted my request yesterday, but no response), so I'll check out the used market. Otherwise I see that Epps has the 10FP for ~ $620. I figure I'd spend the same on optics as I did the rifle, and that's as good a place to start as any. After that it's probably a stock upgrade, based on what I've read about the Savage stock. But all this is academic at this point. Thanks again! :)

EDIT: Yes, I intend to reload, and I've ordered a copy of the "ABC's of Reloading" from Amazon as a primer (excuse the pun, or don't ;) ). Once I've banked enough factory brass, I'll start down that road..

-- Stephen
 
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All good choices Stephen. Savages are also available as bare actions (or were, I haven't seen any ads for a while, now that I think of it). This does allow you to build up as you see fit, but really slows down the shooting time, at least for a while. As for the ammo, Federal, Black Hills, Hornady all sell match grade ammo. In 223, my best groups have been with BH, but it all really depends on each individual rifle. - dan
 
The bubble bust on 223 Target Rifles, so a lot of us have one or two, or three in the locker gathering dust..

Good target actions in target stocks with top quality 1:7 barrels with the correct chamber to shoot the Sierra 80.

Price would be a fraction of the cost of the bits and pieces and gunsmithing costs in each one.

I have a number of them. PM me. You probably know me if you used to shoot the ORA.
 
In case you do end up going with the 700, the 700P and 700 SPS Varmint have the same barrel, action, bolt, trigger, etc... the big difference is the stock and a small difference is the finish but that wouldn't matter much for target shooting.

As long as you get back to what you used to love doing and most certainly will love doing again. :sniper:

Just my 0.02
 
I'm new to the game as well, and ended up choosing between a Rem 700VLSS and a Savage 12BTCSS - both are around the same price (the Savage comes bedded & with accu trigger) - I ended up getting the Rem 700 & having it bedded & a trigger job done. They are both heavy barrel, SS, thumbhole laminated in .223. I shoot 55gr FMJ out to 200 yards. I plan on starting to handload next year.

I put a very, very good Leupold 6.5-20 x 50MM scope & that's it. All in it was $1700.00 (the scope was $900.00) & it easliy shoots under 1" groups at 200meters - I on the other hand seem to prefer shooting 3" groups for some reason :)
 
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