This gun appears well travelled!

straightshooter

straightshooter

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When I saw her, the first thing I noticed about this Winchester is the strange fitting on the side. I've not seen this on an 1897 before, but it looks like it might be intended to slip into a clip inside a saddle holster or somesuch. I knew one of the wise men on this board would be able to tell me its true purpose.

I credit Sharptail with noticing the Belgian proof marks. That was an even bigger surprise. Now I find myself wondering how a shotgun, made in 1908, found it's way to Belgium - and then to Canada, at some point. It obviously existed during the war. If it was shipped to Belgium new, from the factory, it would have been there in the thick of things. From the overall condition of the gun, one would be hard pressed to believe it saw action in battle. All of which leaves me wondering...

(I apologise for my poor photography. I had to take this shot at night and contend with the flash reflecting off the metal. This shot shows both features I describe.)

DSCN0409.JPG
 
From the overall condition of the gun, one would be hard pressed to believe it saw action in battle
Click to expand...

It probably saw battle......just not much of it.
Soldier: "Rifle? no...everyone has a rifle....I wanna carry the SHOTGUN!"
Q.M. "But...it's an open battlefield, and the enemy will have rifles"
Soldier: "So I'll look cooler than the enemy as well then"
Q.M. "Ok then, here ya go. It was nice knowin ya"
:D

Seriously though, a vey cool find. That "fixture" looks like it is knurled, is it remobveable? Looks almost like a takedown knob from the rifles of the time.
 
Could the knurled knob secure the action slide forward when the gun is taken down? I know my 97's action slide slides in and out depending on how you tilt it when taken down if not secured with a rubber band for instance.

cheers Darryl
 
Wrong Way said:
It probably saw battle......just not much of it.
Soldier: "Rifle? no...everyone has a rifle....I wanna carry the SHOTGUN!"
Q.M. "But...it's an open battlefield, and the enemy will have rifles"
Soldier: "So I'll look cooler than the enemy as well then"
Q.M. "Ok then, here ya go. It was nice knowin ya"
:D

Seriously though, a vey cool find. That "fixture" looks like it is knurled, is it remobveable? Looks almost like a takedown knob from the rifles of the time.
Click to expand...

I tried twisting the knurled part (not very hard) and it didn't seem to move. I'll have to try again with a bit more force. I'm currently reading a book on gunsmithing classic western guns. In there, the author warns that "if you have to force it, you're not doing it right". I'll try liberal amounts of penetrating oil before my next attempt.

madtrapper143 said:
Could the knurled knob secure the action slide forward when the gun is taken down? I know my 97's action slide slides in and out depending on how you tilt it when taken down if not secured with a rubber band for instance.
Click to expand...

This '97 assembles effortlessly yet achieves an optimal mating of the receiver to the mag/barrel assembly - as tight as possible without jamming. I took it down the first day and didn't need to use this fitting in order to do so. That doesn't rule out the possibility that you raise; that it could be used as a retainer for the action slide. You can see in the photo that it is positioned where it could certainly mate up with a notch or hole in the actuator arm of the action slide. I'll have to explore that possibility, too.
 
You were right Wrong Way - it is threaded. I enclose a shot of the barrel assembly with the knurled bolt to the side. Strange thing is that it doesn't matter how tightly you replace the bolt, it doesn't contact the action slide.

The bolt itself is hollow, perhaps to accommodate a spring. There could have been a spring with a T-shaped or other head on it, presumably to prevent the slide from going all the way forward except when taking down the gun. The problem I have with that theory is that it works fine as is, so why would they have designed the additional mechanism? And, why don't other 1897's have this on them? Hmm....

DSCN0411.JPG
 
Cool gun, StraightShooter. Gotta love those old guns with odd protrusions. Here's a few pictures of a W.S. Riley made late 1860s to early 1870s. Had a heck of a time finding out what was sticking up on the barrel until I posted it on the Doublegun BBS. Those guys are good. They called it the smoke stack gun. Anybody want to take a guess before I post what it is?
Wardleftsideconeon.jpg

Wardtopconeoff.jpg

Wardribinscription.jpg
 
Northern Bob, I know what the "smokestack" does, but then I also haunt the DGBBS. Very nice, very interesting Riley.

As for Straightshooter's "appendage" , I believe it is a sling or strap attachment, but I do not know for sure. It might be that the gun was imported into Belgium as a police or prison guard's arm. Just a theory.

Sharptail
 
I think you guys are on totally the wrong track with reguards to straightshooter's Winchester - that was the first "tactical" model. That threaded boss is to attach a ??? tactical candle mount :D
 
Its a Gilbert's Shooting Corrector. It has a little plate that is broken off the side that blocks the left eye of a left eye dominent, right handed shot. It was an after market add on. If anyone comes across a cone with intact plate I'd like to buy it. It is well made. Still tight and on face after all this time.
GilbertsSightCorrectorAdd.jpg

GilbertsSCphoto.jpg
 
I was thinking along those lines; whatever the hell the cone does, it's probably going to interfere with your view somehow. But that sideplate FOR SURE will block your left eye.
 
Going to all that trouble just to block out the left view, in a manner of speaking.....and spoiling the otherwise nice profile of that shotgun with the contraption. That thing would look better on a steam locomotive :D
 
I agree Ahsan. The screw that holds the cone down can be removed. The cone is knurled so if the screw is loosened it can be rotated so the plate points down range and locked down.
 
A very nice find, nevertheless. Hammer shotguns have such a strange appeal, almost timeless, if you will :)

SS - sorry for deflecting your original thread. I'm sure that you will agree when is comes to double guns, specially sxs, everything else takes a back seat....no offence :D
 
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Ahsan Ahmed said:
A very nice find, nevertheless. Hammer shotguns have such a strange appeal, almost timeless, if you will :)

SS - sorry for deflecting your original thread. I'm sure that you will agree when is comes to double guns, specially sxs, everything else takes a back seat....no offence :D
Click to expand...

No offence taken. I'm fascinated by many well designed products. SXS's are among top echelon to be sure. This one has individuality (as opposed to follow-the-crowd sameness of design) similar to Darne's receiver or Lefever's adjustable hinge. The contours of the fences and the way they worked that theme into the hammers and the whole receiver is clever. Quite a departure from your run of the mill sidelock (can you imagine the extra work involved:eek:).

That eye correction rig really had me going. Like an idiot, I assumed that the thing had a hole down the middle, all the way into the chamber. That seemed so insane to me that I couldn't begin to deduce why anyone would do such a thing. Now I'm thinking both Thomas Gilbert and the guy who allowed it to be attached to his gun were in contact with too much lead.
 
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Sorry SS, I should have started a new thread on this. The Riley is an unusual gun. The extractors are a Riley patented external style that slide in grooves in the barrel flats. It has what I'm told is a trademark and use number 319 for Parson's chopper lump barrels, rare on a damascus gun. The shooting corrector breaks the clean lines of the gun, but not as bad as this Nydar sight mounted on a L.C. Smith Ideal I picked up recently. It is a relective sight copied from combat aircraft in WW2 and adapted to shotguns.
IdealNydarleftside.jpg
 
North, you have some enthralling guns. I do not regard these sighting systems as "abominations", but rather as pieces of history in the development of wingshooting. They come from an age when the spirit of innovation was more prevalent than it is today. Although they are "failed" designs (they failed to attract popular acceptance) the thought and engineering that went into them makes for an engrossing study. I congratulate you on your success in finding these guns. I have been collecting SxS's for some time now, and I have never had the opportunity to bring something like that home. Have you shot the Elsie with that sight on it? I don't think I would be able to resist the temptation to take it to the club.

Sharptail
 
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