Thoughts on the pleasure of iron sights

Win 38-55

Win 38-55

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This week I took a good friend of mine, who lives a long ways away, shooting at the range. He has hunted all his life. Over the past 40 years or so, he has used a scoped rifle and taken a lot of game with that rifle, including Moose, many Elk, deer and bear. Having hunted with that same rifle for so many years, he has become very good with it.

This week at the range, I introduced him to four of my old rifles, a Springfield Model 1888, an original Winchester Model 1876, an original Winchester Model 1873 and an old Winchester Model 1894. All four were well over 100 years old and all of them had iron sights.

Only once or twice in the past 8 years have I ever seen another person using iron sights at my range, and I have not shot with anyone who is proficient with these old guns, so I had no idea what is normal. I was very surprised at how difficult it was for my friend to get anything resembling a group, given how consistently good he is with his scoped rifle of 40 years running. For him, it was a whole different kind of shooting. To my amazement, I was able to shoot significantly better offhand at 100 yards than he was able to shoot from a rest with the same rifle. He asked me if I had ever considered competing, but I was embarrassed at the suggestion and told him no and I never would want to. I don't consider myself anything more than a half-decent shot. Rather, I'm sure it was his 40 some years away from the good old iron sights that made such a contrast between our targets.

I think he's hooked now and I'm sure he will see rapid improvement as he practices with an old iron sighted Model 1894 over the next few months. All this got me to thinking as I was reading some threads by fellows who were discussing what were the best scoped rifles, etc. What I am thinking is that shooting old guns with iron sights must be a whole different world of shooting that I think a lot of fellows would enjoy if they decided to really get half decent at it. Judging from my good friend, who is normally very good with his scoped, flat shooting rifle, shooting with iron sights is a more challenging sport that many might find even more enjoyable and satisfying than shooting with a scope, once they get half decent at it. In a forum like this, probably most of us shoot with iron sights but for you fellows who have been letting your iron sighted guns gather dust, or maybe don't even have an iron sighted gun, I'd encourage you to dust it off and commit yourself to becoming very good with it over the next year or so. Getting half-decent with iron sights at 100 or 200 yards can provide a lot of enjoyment.
 
I bought my Uncle's old 308 Model 760 Gamemaster this spring as he is ill and can't use it anymore. It had a scope on it which he used as far back as I can remember. I redid the stocks and cleaned the gun up but realized the old bushnell scope had let go.

I grew up using open sights and really liked them, also really prefer carrying a gun with out a scope. Luckily my eyes are still good and the old Gamemaster has very nice open sights, as most did, so I think I will do my big game hunting with the open sights this fall.

I will have to get out and do some practicing but I still shoot a couple of 22lr's with open sights a fair bit so it shouldn't take much to get back to my old form.
 
I see all too often that people are far too quick to scope their rifle's. Don't get me wrong, optics have a huge place in the world of firearms, especially if the rifle is to be used in combat or even hunting.

But I'm a firm believer that every new shooter should learn on iron sights before progressing to an optic of some kind. I'm also a firm believer that every serious shooter should have at least one iron sighted rifle in their collection.

It always makes me cringe when I see a nice M14 (for example), and the first thing the excited new owner does is throw a cheap scope on a Chinese mount and wonder why it isn't shooting 1/4 MOA......
 
I shoot both,irons and scopes.My rule of thumb is,if it's tapped for scope mounts I'll scope it,if not I'll use the irons.I don't like to alter my guns,I like them original.
 
Good iron/ghost ring/aperture sights are fairly simple to use and as long as you can see the target reasonably well and distance/trajectory is known and compensated for it's not hard to make good hits with some practice.

Small tiny beads with teeny notches in buckhorn rear sights are hell to use and hard to do good work with.

I don't practice enough with them, but I was scaring the hell out of the 340 yard gong last fall with my 45 colt trapper 16" barrel, standing offhand. It might have been in real trouble if I had gotten a rest!:p
 
For Hunting I only use iron sights, I have an ATV I don't trust the scope after it bouces up and down. I only shoot within 200m with my TOZ-122 in 308 it works well
 
Good job Kirk, got another hooked on the irons. It is very rewarding to get a rifle shooting half straight with them. I don't count myself as much a shooter either, but the odd string of shots can resemble a group at times.
Now getting game with irons, that is a very rewarding experience too!

Thanks for the story!
 
Thanks for the nub Kirk. Ya got me thinking about my old 1892...44-40 and my old 69A with open sights among a couple others. Had to shake my head a bit to recall what eye had for sights on them. I may have a chance on the 92 with the big buck horn rear but that 69 has waaay too much dust on it. I remember being able to knock the heads off grouse with it.....that 69 that is. Then eye had a side mount and scope put on it. Well that didnt work any more and I decided a group of pellets were in order. Yup, went out and bought an old sxs .410. Havent had the urge to scope that yet. Hell, last time I went out to the range with my old shooting buddy, well he lectured me on putting a spotting scope on a rifle. Told him 3x9 on 9 at a hundred yards dont cut it any more. Tried shooting left handed and all feels better except the groups dont do so well. Wish eye had 20..40 the other way. Now I know why wings on the fly are difficult, eyem left eye dominate and right handed. Thanks for the nub though, now I have to find them old creatures and dust them off. Regards Kirk.
 
I learned to shoot with iron sights - first an air rifle and then a .22, then a Model 94 Winchester and .22's with Air Cadets. I like open sights but my eyes aren't as good as they used to be.
 
Small tiny beads with teeny notches in buckhorn rear sights are hell to use and hard to do good work with.
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I agree i had my Win 94 at the range the other day offhand at 100 yrds i was hitting the target nicely but wouldn't want to go much further.I want to try a peep but not on that gun as it is getting ricketty.A new lever is in the works as i really enjoy those iron sights.
 
I think the sight of blurry rear sights might put a lot of fellows off, convincing them that they can't use them. You'd be surprised with you can do with blurry sights once you get used to them. However, there is a way to really sharpen things up for us old fellows who need reading glasses (I'm 56). I bought some peel and stick 1/4" dots at the office supplies store and punched a tiny 1/32" or 1/16" hole in the center of each one. For really fine work, where I'm trying to get the smallest groups possible, I peel off a dot and stick it on the lens of my glasses, just off center. It acts the same way an f-stop works on a camera ..... the smaller the hole, the sharper everything is from close up to infinity. It can sharpen things up nicely even for a 100 year old geezer.
 
I find nothing more gratifying than pinging the 330yd plate at the range with my sks iron sights.

I believe if the gun has irons, get proficient with those, then scope it and get even better. Iron sights require a fair level of skill to use, while a properly scoped/sighted rifle will start to show where you need to improve in terms of breathing, trigger control, etc. ..the more physical aspects...the operator will be the culprit.
 
Good thread. I've always been a staunch supporter of using iron sights for target shooting/hunting. I do also realize that many folks may not be able to use those effectively due to eyesight issues.

A bit off-track....could anyone comment on the quality of irons installed on Uberti 1873 lever rifles? Are those the same as found on Marlin/Win etc or better? I haven't had an opportunity to personally inspect one so far but planning to acquire one in the very near future.
 
I have begun slowly 'regressing' to iron sights for hunting, and find them not to be much of a disadvantage. I love the handiness of a light (6 1/2 lbs) lever or bolt gun with a quality aperature sight. I have just fitted a williams to my husqvarna 4100 in .308, and my model 94 is next. I shot a 5" group last year with my 30-30 and the factory irons at 300 yds.
 
I shoot with optics and iron sights.

I like iron sights when hunting because they are quick and you don't get any tunnel vision. Bad news is they are basically a 100 yard affair, maybe 200 under ideal circumstances.
 
Im a big fan of irons, I like shooting scoped rifles and I even have some scoped guns. However for hunting I like to be able to carry my gun around not worrying about knocking the scope etc. When it comes down to it, mos tof my shooting these days is doen with irons. I plink with the iron sighted .22 at the range, then I hunt with my iron sighted BLR. To each his own and i would not knock those who like scopes, I just firmly believe that as gun owners we should be at least proficient with each type and then you can settle into the one you really enjoy shooting.
 
I practice at 100 and 200 yards. I usually am sighted in for 100 and practice my 'hold over' at 200 with the objective of putting all shots within an 8" circle at 200 yards with hold over. Our range permits offhand shooting at 100 yards but not on the 200 yard range, so I do a lot of offhand practice at 100 yards (i.e., once per week for about two months prior to hunting season with the particular old Winchester I'll be using that year) and use my shooting bag for 200 yard shots with iron sights. I'd love to practice at longer ranges with some of my guns (like my Springfield Model 1888 with Buffington peep sight), but our range only goes up to 200 yards.
 
Fenix.NZ said:
if the iron sights on the norc m14 werent so horrible i wouldn't even look at optics, i prefer open/iron sights
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Are you commenting on quality, or design?

Because the M14 iron sights, originally seen on the M1 Garand, are (arguably) the finest iron sights ever installed on a combat rifle.
 
Greg_VP said:
Are you commenting on quality, or design?

Because the M14 iron sights, originally seen on the M1 Garand, are (arguably) the finest iron sights ever installed on a combat rifle.
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I believe the poster was talking about the Norc (stock) irons quality.....those are always a hit and miss (pun intended) component on the Chinese M305s.
 
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