Hello guys. I'm fairly new to guns and shooting and recently bought a t3 in 300wsm off the forum here. It had a low round count supposedly and is in very good condition. I'm shooting barnes vor-tx 150 ttsx through it and it's not grouping all that well. Today the best i got was 2.5" at 100 yards with 4 shots. It was a little windy. The ballistics on the bullets show 3310fps. Here's what i noticed today. I was shooting from a benchmaster rest and i fired 2 rounds and took a break. I happend to look at the third round in my magazine and i noticed the polymer tip was ballooned out, like it had been struck or pushed on. What is with that?? I cleaned my rifle after i missed a deer at 300 yards and noticed it had heavy copper fouling in the last third of my barrel toward the muzzle end. After the cleaning the first 4 shots were wild with a approximate grouping of 4 inches. Now i'm grouping at 2.5". I hoped better with my expensive barnes ammo. My scope is a zeiss conquest, rings are talley. Can someone give me some help with why this thing is damaging the polymer tips of ammo in my magazing after firing?
Tikka t3 300wsm damaging polymer tip of rounds in magazine
- Thread starter rosscopeeko
- Start date
Turkeyslayer 1300
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Russell, Ontario
Clean your barrel and stop shooting all Copper bullets. I have noticed a few guns just hate them and show it by fouling heavily.
The recoil of the gun is causing the catridges to move in the magazine and the tips are deforming because of it.
The recoil of the gun is causing the catridges to move in the magazine and the tips are deforming because of it.
the tip deformation is from recoil. I shoot a t3 30-06 with 200gr partitions and the lead tips get flattened in the mag. i don't know if it will effect accuracy much all i do is keep the flattened one in the mag for follow up shots and chamber a good one
I shoot a Sako finnlight (30-06) with the same scope and I use the same ammo but in a 168 gr. I have never noticed a problem with any of the tips in the mag but I will pay closer attention to the rounds left in the mag. my next time firing it. I group at 1 and 1/2 inches at 100 yards. I agree with the previous guy try a few different brands of ammo and practice with the one that works best for you. Sometimes the most expensive choice just isn't right for your set up. Happy Hunting.
TTSX bullets are very, very accurate and don't foul too bad, either.
DOnt' worry about some tip deformation, it wont' affect accuracy.
Your rifle may not like that particular brand of ammo, but you would need to establish that both you and your rifle are actually accurate with other ammo, too. As a new shooter you may be doing something wrong or maybe your scope isn't on tight or whatever.
Clean your rifle after about 40 shots. If you are cleaning after 5 or so, you will probably never get good accuracy.
DOnt' worry about some tip deformation, it wont' affect accuracy.
Your rifle may not like that particular brand of ammo, but you would need to establish that both you and your rifle are actually accurate with other ammo, too. As a new shooter you may be doing something wrong or maybe your scope isn't on tight or whatever.
Clean your rifle after about 40 shots. If you are cleaning after 5 or so, you will probably never get good accuracy.
- Location
- new brunswick
I just use 165 & 180 grain nosler balistic tips,in my 300, And i have great accuracy 1" or better and there pretty cheap,used them in pretty much all my guns,they always shoot good.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
As has been previously said, you might have to go through lots of factory ammo before finding the one your rifle likes, best consider handloading. While 2.5 MOA is exactly horrible, its certainly not special either. But in the meantime lets see if we can't work with what you have. It is important to keep your accuracy expectations relevant to what the cartridge and load is for, and your choice of factory ammo is for big game hunting. If the extreme spread of a 3 shot group is 2.5 MOA, you would be hard pressed to shoot up to your rifle under field conditions. Get off the bench and see how well you do shooting from field positions out to 300 yards. I bet the 2.5 MOA of your factory ammo isn't as much of a concern if you do.
As for damaged bullet tips being an issue for accuracy, they're not. Damage to the heal of the bullet is far more critical than it is to the tip, because now the center of gravity no longer matches the geometric center of the bullet, and yaw becomes a factor throughout the bullet's flight rather than just as it leaves the muzzle and again at the point of impact. Keep in mind that the bullet spins about 2500 revolutions per second, so as far as the bullet is concerned, even a damaged tip is still in it's geometric center.
As for damaged bullet tips being an issue for accuracy, they're not. Damage to the heal of the bullet is far more critical than it is to the tip, because now the center of gravity no longer matches the geometric center of the bullet, and yaw becomes a factor throughout the bullet's flight rather than just as it leaves the muzzle and again at the point of impact. Keep in mind that the bullet spins about 2500 revolutions per second, so as far as the bullet is concerned, even a damaged tip is still in it's geometric center.
One good advice: have a expert marksman try your rifle.
You might find out that you're rifle shoots 1-1.5" 5 shot groups.
As for missing a deer with at 300m with a 300 WSM, I see hunters miss targets at 100m by shooting 8' (feet not inches) left, right, over or under the target because they practice enough to handle the cartridge under stress.
300 WSM is an a very powerful cartridge and Tikka T3 is a very light rifle.
When it comes to excellent deer ammo, try Federal 165gr Partition for deer.
Alex
Thanks for all the information guys. I agree that this rifle does give me a fairly good wallop when i fire it, but when i'm test firing it at the range it's cradled in a benchmaster shooting rest which absorbs a bit of the recoil. The 150 grains don't recoil nearly as much as the 180's i shot in it for my first box of purchased rounds. These were federal fushions just to get the scope sighted in. Then i went with a box of federal fushion 165 grain and i got groupings of about 1 1/4" which i was happy with. I went to go buy some more 165 grain ammo in barnes flavour and they were sold out. Same with federal premium accubonds. All that was available was 180 grain nosler partitions or these vor-tx 150's. The first few of these 150's i fired nearly touched. This was without cleaning my gun after approximately 40 rounds through it. I went to dial it in one day on the 150's and it was hot out (30c). I didn't know enough not to shoot in the heat. Stupid me basically wasted 13 rounds because my gun was grouping horribly, and i'm guessing this was due to the heat. I would fire 2 rounds and it would be reasonable at 1 1/4", then the third would zing off by 4". The barrel was very hot on the third shot. After all of this randomness i came home and through some wipe out cleaner down the tube. I patched it out, looked through the muzzle and i had some heavy fouling in the last third of the barrel, right on the twist lining of the barrel. Sorry i phrased that wrong. My wipe out would not take it out so i went and bought a bronze brush and very carefully cleaned it with that. After about 4 different applications of wipe out, and some light brushing i got it nearly perfectly clean. Every patch would show copper on it. I took it shooting again and the first few shots were 6" off from centre in random patterns. I fired 7, and the last 3 grouped somewhere around 2.5". Yesterday was the same, but it was windy. All shots were from 100 yards. I'm fairly positive i'm not flinching. I squeeze the trigger so that i basically don't know when the shot is coming.
I will say i am a beginner to all of this, so thank you to those who have offered suggestions. I plan on learning to reload this winter so i can get better at shooting. When we're out hunting we are looking for deer and moose, hence the larger calibre. I wanted a do it all gun. I thought about taking the gun in to the gunsmith to get them to check the trigger guard screws. I thought i read on here somewhere that this can throw off accuracy. Anyways, sorry for the long post. I want to get this thing shooting like others on this forum with tikka's.
I will say i am a beginner to all of this, so thank you to those who have offered suggestions. I plan on learning to reload this winter so i can get better at shooting. When we're out hunting we are looking for deer and moose, hence the larger calibre. I wanted a do it all gun. I thought about taking the gun in to the gunsmith to get them to check the trigger guard screws. I thought i read on here somewhere that this can throw off accuracy. Anyways, sorry for the long post. I want to get this thing shooting like others on this forum with tikka's.
bigborefan
Regular
- Location
- Kawartha Lakes, ON
rosscopeeko;
I don't think it's your rifle, unless you overdo the cleaning thing to remove ALL copper fouling. It's fairly well known that if you use the Barnes "all copper" bullets, some rifles like 'em and some don't. But here's the point: Often it's important that there be some "buildup" of copper for some rifles to like 'em. That's an incontestable fact, proven by yours truly!
I've shot enough of the Barnes X and TSX to know that when a load begins to show acceptable to excellent accuracy, DON"T CLEAN IT!!! Let it be until it begins to deteriorate. THEN don't overdo it. I've had a significant drop in velocity, change in accuracy and bullet impact location simply by pulling a "Bore Snake" thru a couple of times at the range!.
Other than that, there's good info here except that the TSX (my favorite bullet) or TTSX are ONLY accurate if your rifle likes them, OR you develop YOUR OWN LOAD to optimize YOUR rifle.
BTW, I own and love my T3 in 9.3 X 62. It shoots sub MOA from 286-grainers at 2400+ fps. And it weighs a mere 8 lbs with scope, sling and 3 in the magazine. And the recoil is more than a 300 WSM. They are a great rifle and don't let anyone tell you otherwise... I've used many, many rifles from .22 LR to .458 Win Mag over some 60 years, and the TIKKA is as good as any of them and better than many. You made an excellent choice for an all-round cartridge in an excellent rifle!
Good luck and good hunting!
Bob
www.bigbores.ca
I don't think it's your rifle, unless you overdo the cleaning thing to remove ALL copper fouling. It's fairly well known that if you use the Barnes "all copper" bullets, some rifles like 'em and some don't. But here's the point: Often it's important that there be some "buildup" of copper for some rifles to like 'em. That's an incontestable fact, proven by yours truly!
I've shot enough of the Barnes X and TSX to know that when a load begins to show acceptable to excellent accuracy, DON"T CLEAN IT!!! Let it be until it begins to deteriorate. THEN don't overdo it. I've had a significant drop in velocity, change in accuracy and bullet impact location simply by pulling a "Bore Snake" thru a couple of times at the range!.
Other than that, there's good info here except that the TSX (my favorite bullet) or TTSX are ONLY accurate if your rifle likes them, OR you develop YOUR OWN LOAD to optimize YOUR rifle.
BTW, I own and love my T3 in 9.3 X 62. It shoots sub MOA from 286-grainers at 2400+ fps. And it weighs a mere 8 lbs with scope, sling and 3 in the magazine. And the recoil is more than a 300 WSM. They are a great rifle and don't let anyone tell you otherwise... I've used many, many rifles from .22 LR to .458 Win Mag over some 60 years, and the TIKKA is as good as any of them and better than many. You made an excellent choice for an all-round cartridge in an excellent rifle!
Good luck and good hunting!
Bob
www.bigbores.ca
I'm thinking it would be a good idea to get someone to check your scope mounts or the scope and also to get someone else at the range that consistantly shoots tight groups to give it a try. I've had a few scopes succumb to my 8 mm Remington Mag and the groups go exactly as your explaining.
Thanks again guys. I'll try letting someone else shoot my rifle at the range this winter. I work with an ex navy, pro type shooter who loads to get three touching shots at 100 yards. He told me not to go with barnes bullets because they were picky for him, however he had a load that shot beautifully, but he's now more impressed with accubonds. My scope is second hand as well as my rife. Everything looks like new, but i'm aware that looks can be misleading. My rings are talley lightweights, and i set them up myself to talley's recommended torque specs. Off hunting again this weekend for white tail and muley's. I'll keep my attempted shots to under 200 yards. Great forum here. Thanks guys.
My experience with the tips flattening is due to the short mag or long COL. When the bullet is loaded or extracted from the mag it sometimes rises or goes in at an angle thus rubbing against the fronth of the mag. I also have issues finding a MOA or sub MOA load. Really frustration at times. However I have take two deer with this rifle.
