To return or not to return?

p.Rundle said:
I could hit the box I was shooting at every time when the wind slowed down periodically. I'm associating the wind with the poor accuracy but I am going to try and clamp down the rings again as that could be another source of issue. Then it'll be EE for the gun I bet. I don't see the point to the magnum.
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Don't clamp them down too tight, you can damage the scope. 15 in lbs only for the ring screws. If you don't see the point to the 22 WMR then it probably wasn't for you, send it along to the EE with full discloure and buy something more suited to what your expecting from a chambering. If you want laser accuracy for the same price look at the 17 HMR but wind will be a bigger factor for the lighter 17 out past 100 yards.
 
Canadian_Zuk said:
Don't clamp them down too tight, you can damage the scope. 15 in lbs only for the ring screws. If you don't see the point to the 22 WMR then it probably wasn't for you, send it along to the EE with full discloure and buy something more suited to what your expecting from a chambering. If you want laser accuracy for the same price look at the 17 HMR but wind will be a bigger factor for the lighter 17 out past 100 yards.
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Yeah I'm gonna. I'm going to clean it and fix the scope issue, I'm pretty sure the gun is accurate, but do you think I should take it to the range and confirm it's accurate? The scope is pretty good, surprisingly clear so I don't think it'll be hard.
 
p.Rundle said:
Ok, so imagine my scope is the one in the picture. The side pictured and the other side of the same ring (IE, the left side) are totally different. But the screws on the same side, like the 2 screws in pic, are seated to the same depth. The other ring is the same deal. There is a gap on the right side of the front ring, and the left side of the front ring is tight. But the gaps we're talking about are literally 3x bigger than the ones pictured. I think they torqued down the left sides of both rings really, really tight and then couldn't get the left in as far, so they left it. If I had pictures I'd post them, but my gun isn't immediately accessible so I can't. Tomorrow I may if it's a rain day for my work.
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Loosen the side that is clamped tight with no gap. Snug the other side to close its gap until you get both sides fairly equal. As previous poster mentioned, they do not have to be wrenched down too tight, but the gaps should be fairly equal.
 
p.Rundle said:
I could hit the box I was shooting at every time when the wind slowed down periodically. I'm associating the wind with the poor accuracy but I am going to try and clamp down the rings again as that could be another source of issue. Then it'll be EE for the gun I bet. I don't see the point to the magnum.
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I don't care how hard the wind was blowing, it isn't going to make you miss a 2' target at 50m with a 22wmr or anything else for that matter. I agree with others.... start at 10m and sight it in, then move back. Not everything works perfectly the first time you use it. There is often a learning curve and often some tweeking to do.
 
p.Rundle said:
Yeah I'm gonna. I'm going to clean it and fix the scope issue, I'm pretty sure the gun is accurate, but do you think I should take it to the range and confirm it's accurate? The scope is pretty good, surprisingly clear so I don't think it'll be hard.
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How are you pretty sure the gun is accurate?
 
This is 50 yards. Irons sights. Off the elbows.

DSCN9774.jpg


Something is wrong with your rifle. Unless you are closing the wrong eye.
 
p.Rundle said:
Well it's a Savage, and when I look at how ####ed the rings are I can deduce that that's the only cause of accuracy issue. Barring the shooter of course ;)
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The rings aren't bad, all rings have a gap or they wouldn't grip the scope properly without either being loose or damaging it. Savage certainly doesn't worry about proper installation of the scope or sighting it in. They bolt the gun together so you get the package all in one piece and then expect the new owner to take it all apart, clean it thoroughly and reassemble it properly. It's obvious by your comments that you didn't do that and maybe don't even know you should. Did you remove the barreled action and de-grease the whole gun including the trigger, barrel and bolt? To do that you need to remove the scope. Did you then reassemble it after proper lubrication of the bolt and tighten the action, base and and ring screws to the proper toque or at least close to it? Did you set the scope for proper eye relief for you? Did you focus the scope for your eye? If you didn't do it or don't know how to do this it is something you will need to learn to be happy with your guns. Guns, even a Savage, are precision machines and to treat them as anything less is to invite what you are experiencing. Hopefully you will do all this and then report back that you are very pleased with your new acquisition or you will sell it on the EE but at least you will have given it a shooting chance to be the best it can be.
 
elimsprint said:
The rings aren't bad, all rings have a gap or they wouldn't grip the scope properly without either being loose or damaging it. Savage certainly doesn't worry about proper installation of the scope or sighting it in. They bolt the gun together so you get the package all in one piece and then expect the new owner to take it all apart, clean it thoroughly and reassemble it properly. It's obvious by your comments that you didn't do that and maybe don't even know you should. Did you remove the barreled action and de-grease the whole gun including the trigger, barrel and bolt? To do that you need to remove the scope. Did you then reassemble it after proper lubrication of the bolt and tighten the action, base and and ring screws to the proper toque or at least close to it? Did you set the scope for proper eye relief for you? Did you focus the scope for your eye? If you didn't do it or don't know how to do this it is something you will need to learn to be happy with your guns. Guns, even a Savage, are precision machines and to treat them as anything less is to invite what you are experiencing. Hopefully you will do all this and then report back that you are very pleased with your new acquisition or you will sell it on the EE but at least you will have given it a shooting chance to be the best it can be.
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I'm not degreasing the gun and taking it out of the stock and all that. I'm going to clean the barrel and bolt tonight, then shoot it tomorrow. I expect my guns to be tough enough to shoot well while dirty. My Vz.58, SKS and others shoot fine dirty (obviously I removed the cosmoline from the SKS) all go bang every time and are pretty accurate. I haven't cleaned my Vz. in about 3 months. Still hits a man-sized target every time at 200m easily.

I know the barrel needs to be cleaned, but the trigger? Removing the stock? I'm not going to do that for a gun I'm going to sell. I want to verify that it can shoot well, then sell it. It doesn't need to be clean as a whistle and all perdy'd up to do that. It's a Savage, they built their legacy on accuracy under essentially any realistic condition.
 
p.Rundle said:
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Is this okay? The sight is super solid in there but these are the gaps I was talking about...pretty big
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I just got a savage package rifle, the rings are terrible... Go buy even $20 rings and they will be better.

If you tore down cleaned, then loc tite everything then reinstall with the optic fitted to you there shouldn't be any problems. '

My package rings stripped at 15lbs\in ... Pretty good indicator they are crap.
 
p.Rundle said:
There's a very slight gap on the other side, extremely hard to see. Much less than a millimetre, maybe .25mm. I don't think its an issue but I am not experienced with mounting sights so that's an assumption
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Exactly my point, you slightly loosen the screws on the side that has no gap and slightly tighten the screws on the side with the gap and soon you have even gaps. Some rings have less gap than others but they all have a bit. The rings can't touch or they wouldn't hold the scope properly as not all 1" scope tubes are exactly 1". Yes they are cheap rings but they work just fine if you adjust them properly. Even with the gap unadjusted all they are doing is holding the scope securely which they are doing just fine, it's just they look better adjusted properly. They are more than adequate for a rimfire. You don't need to crank them down either, all that does is mar the scope.

Did you clean the bore thoroughly before you shot it the first time? The packing grease can fill the grooves and make the gun a virtual smoothbore if you don't. It can also cause excessive pressure and ring the barrel if it is not cleaned out before the first round is fired. It also can gunk up and jam extractors, firing pins and sears thus my comments earlier.

If you buy a new car do you take it out and run a rally with it first thing. No, you break it in slowly beforehand. You do that to smooth all the parts, wear the machining marks off and get the parts to mate properly. Same with a gun, you take some shots then clean the bore, then take some more and clean it again. This gets rid of machining irregularities in the bore that grab lead and burnt powder which can build up very fast and can cause a very quick loss of accuracy. After a couple of hundred rounds of doing this chances are that you can leave it dirty and it will shoot just fine.
 
I forgot to mention that you also need to adjust the scopes' sight picture to where you hold your gun. To do that you need to loosen off the rings to the point where the scope moves forward and back fairly easily (I usually totally remove the top halves) then carefully shoulder the gun from the position you are going to shoot it from the most, standing, benched, kneeling, prone, with your eyes closed and once the gun feels comfortable you open your eye(s) and see if you have the best picture in the scope. If you do, great. If not you move the scope forwards or back to see where it is best and then try the closed eye test again. Once you have that adjusted you carefully lower the gun and put a piece of masking tape on the tube right behind the rear ring so you know exactly where the scope should be. Loosely install the top rings. Then you turn the scope till the crosshairs are aligned perfectly and tighten the top rings carefully, I usually do one on each side of each ring, till they are just snug enough to hold the scope and then do the closed eye test again. If all is good then carefully tighten the rings going side to side and front to back doing just a part turn on each screw till they are all snugged up, keeping the gaps the same on either side of the rings. Do the closed eye test again. If all is good then look through the scope at a target or some object 50yds away or so (100 for a centrefire) and adjust the eyepiece (the rear lense) till the crosshairs are clear and crisp. Do a couple more closed eye tests to make sure all is good and congratulations, you are done.

Oh yeah, remove the piece of masking tape.
 
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