To Tok or not to Tok what are these markings
- Thread starter srdiver
- Start date
had a feeling it was a post 1968 import but prior to the BATF requirement for external safety. And after 68 Russian firearm imports were "banned" so one why would be to call them something else that was kind of okay, I know of other russian and polish that have these marks but any romanian don't (they tend to also have made in Romania).
That is incorrect information. Ukraine has no export markings requirements, that's why we had been able to enjoy a variety of milsurplus in either original or refurbed condition with no modern markings.
TT-C and other laser etched perversions are Russian export and local markings requirements to a) make it look on paper as "sporting guns" as opposed to military guns and b) facilitate export from Russia. Basically because their laws prohibit commercial sale and export of military firearms. These TTs were never destined to US (impossible with current US laws), they were intended to be sold in Canada.
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That is incorrect information. Ukraine has not export markings requirements, that's why we had been able to enjoy a variety of milsurplus in either original or refurbed condition with no modern markings.
TT-C and other laser etched perversions are Russian export and local markings requirements to a) make it look on paper as "sporting guns" as opposed to military guns and b) facilitate export from Russia. Basically because their laws prohibit commercial sale and export of military firearms. These TTs were never destined to US (impossible with current US laws), they were intended to be sold in Canada.
It's not Ukraine or the government that did it obviously... it was the exporter OUT of Ukraine. Either they, or the American importer that did this.
These pistols came with the BBQ SKS's out of the same storage facility in that country. All of the prior Russian exports were unmarked and unmolested, but were done 10 years ago.
I'm sorry, I don't understand why are you arguing if you don't have subject knowledge. You could have just checked what I said, but you keep insisting on your opinion. According to you exporters stamped those BBQ SKSs and TTs from Ukraine with "ГИС" marking - which is Russian "State Proof Station" (Государственная Ипьітательная Станция). Totally makes sense as well as TT-C (ТТ-Sport - TT-Спортивньій), another Russian marking. Even more some of these have English language "Made in Russia", but yeah, whatever, they still came from Ukraine...
Also as I said - US cannot import TT-33, SKS, SVT and many other common Soviet surplus, only MNs and couple of other items that are exempted, but you keep saying they were intended for US. Where do you get all this nonsense?
Again - Russian exports are marked with modern _export_ markings. All unmarked and unmolested came from Ukraine. Not vice versa.
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Well, it seems your points are valid now. The info comes from a local retailer and apparently his own understanding of where these are from. I remember talking to him years ago when the last batch of BBQ paint SKSs and TT-33's with those markings came onto the market and he told me that these were Ukrainian of origin, specifically Crimea. Maybe perhaps they were brought to Russia from Crimea during annexation, then marked as Made in Russia? (Since they originally were made in the Russian SSR).
I don't know, he had me convinced, especially with what was going on during the time and the large change from previous exports before.
Some retailers seem to like to come with fairy tales. Most of these firearms with export marking have paperwork from 2010-2013. I haven't seen later dates. [Correction - I actually found as late as 2015 date]. Ukraine did not have old milsurplus storages in Crimea, only current service firearm at bases and police stations.
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Some retailers seem to like to come with fairy tales. Most of these firearms with export marking have paperwork from 2010-2013. I haven't seen later dates. Ukraine did not have old milsurplus storages in Crimea, only current service firearm at bases and police stations.
believe what he says he knows a great many things about military surplus.
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Don’t believe everything you hear alfrom the other side of your LGS counter, it’s 50% misinformation most of the time...
Than the "CMII" symbol means?
Thank you for the information that you have provided, I always find truth over rules opinions
What you have said makes more sense than my opinion about 1968 import, US BATF safeties and would explain why even the Polish Circle 11 TT-33 have the TT-C stamped. The one thing I have noticed is and since these are soviet military weapons they did not need a "ID or marker's make, which is an Western European standard that carried over to NAmerica" because in theory they all had a factory stamp and date of production and were all built to the "same" standard.
http://www.southernohiogun.com/polish-md-ttc-tokarev-pistol-7-62x25-cal.html but doesn't appear to have TT-C (can not tell in the picture)
https://www.classicfirearms.com/polish-ttc-tokarev-pistols - looks like a importer mark
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/774645444
https://www.classicfirearms.com/polish-ttc-tokarev-pistols - looks like a importer mark
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/774645444
Indeed there's "TTC" and "TT-C" on some Polish TTs sold in US. They all has safety added and "TTC/TT-C" is part of importer marking.
Official designation in Poland is "PW wz.33" for 7.62x25 and "TT Sportowy" for .22LR version. I think the only TT that had official "TTC" name was Romanian - "TTC" aka "TT Cugir" aka "Cugir Tokarov". So don't confuse it with Russian "TT-C" export marking where last "C" is Cyrillic and equals to Latin "S".
My best guess would be US importers simplified paperwork when they imported Polish TTs along with Romanian ones or just messed up markings, not the first time.
Romanian (in US):
Polish (in US):
Official designation in Poland is "PW wz.33" for 7.62x25 and "TT Sportowy" for .22LR version. I think the only TT that had official "TTC" name was Romanian - "TTC" aka "TT Cugir" aka "Cugir Tokarov". So don't confuse it with Russian "TT-C" export marking where last "C" is Cyrillic and equals to Latin "S".
My best guess would be US importers simplified paperwork when they imported Polish TTs along with Romanian ones or just messed up markings, not the first time.
Romanian (in US):
Polish (in US):
