Tobin Proof Marks **PIC UP**

Farlsincharge

Farlsincharge

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Hey guys, I need a hand Identifying the sole proof mark on my Tobin SxS. It looks like this

(BTP)


P5250045.jpg
 
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I have no idea. I have never seen a Tobin with this mark, and my gun does not have it. David J. Noreen's works do not mention it, and it is not in the replica Tobin catalogue I have here. I would dearly love to see a photo of this mark. Where is is located on the gun? What is the serial number of the gun (minus the last three digits)?


Sharptail
 
I will try and get you a pic tomorrow but it is overcast right now and I don't think it will show up without some good light. It is located directly on the underside of the left barrel right in front of the flat action mechanism. Serial number 186xx

Also on the piece that latches the forestock there is a "26" and then a sideways "G"
 
Sharptail said:
I have no idea. I have never seen a Tobin with this mark, and my gun does not have it. David J. Noreen's works do not mention it, and it is not in the replica Tobin catalogue I have here. I would dearly love to see a photo of this mark. Where is is located on the gun? What is the serial number of the gun (minus the last three digits)?


Sharptail
Click to expand...

I can tell that you are going to enjoy tracking this one down:)
 
bosley said:
I can tell that you are going to enjoy tracking this one down:)
Click to expand...

Yes, if I can!

Farls, I will see what I can find out about this mark. If you would, please tell me A) what (if anything) is engraved on the sides of the gun, and B) whether the barrels are marked as Krupp, Trojan or De Moya (or not marked at all). Every bit of info helps.

Sharptail
 
More pic's Work that camera:)

I'm kinda thinkin it may be a owners stamp. But with Sharptail on the case you will get a more definite answer.
 
Tobin

Very nice looking shot gun, I have had a couple poor hammer ones ,but never a side lock.
Is it possible it could have been rebarreled in the past?
Your proof mark? is a bit out of focus
Marshall in the s.w. Sk.
 
It was not rebarreled as far as I know, I purchased it from the original owners son. The way he spoke was that the gun was the main game getter for the supper table and I can't see it being done, but it is possible.

The pic is a little out of focus but the mark itself is hard to read as it is

**edit**
I forgot to realise that the gun is all numbers matching, so it musn't have been rebarreled
 
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Farls, a little more info on your Tobin for you while I search for the meaning of your barrel mark.

Your gun appears to be a Black Diamond Grade Simplex model, which was one grade up from the basic Standard model Simplex. There was also the least expensive model, a hammer gun known as the Leader, but it was not a Simplex patent gun. In 1916 (which is around the time when your gun was made, not absolutely sure about that) the Black Diamond retailed for around $33, which made it competitive with similarly spec'ed Parker and L. C. Smith models. The Black Diamond grade had a unique finish called "Pyro - Oxidized Black", which Tobin touted as a high grade treatment.

One interesting note is that Tobin purchased the patented design for the Simplex gun from a California inventor named Clarence Wollam. Tobin may have been introduced to Wollam while he was working as a traveling salesman for Hopkins & Allen, providing a nice tie - in with your other gun.

Sharptail
 
Tobin info

Farls and Sharptail;
I have a Tobin #192xx with the same mark "BTP" under the right barrel. It has no patent mark on watertable, no identification of the barrel type. The sideplates are marked "Tobin Arms" with no engraving at all. The Woodstock,Ont, Canada is not present on the plates. Also have #194xx same thing with no patent date on the water table, but this one has Woodstock address on it and has perimeter engraving on the plates. It has a 32" barrel . Tobin #1898x also has no Woodstock address but has the patent date on the watertable. No engraving at all.
The guns with no patent date are G.B.Crandall assembled guns I believe.
I hope you find what the "BTP " means. Suppose these guns were destined to go to Great Britain and these are proof marks? For Black powder maybe?
Most Tobin do not have the type of steel for the barrels marked.
 
BTP must be the Barrel makers mark. I don't think BTP is a proof mark. I once saw a Webley with BTP on it. But it was for "British Transit Police". Wouldn't make any sense on a Tobin. Who made barrels for Tobin?
 
Here's a good link for overseas proof marks. https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PDF/Firearm/Proofmarks.pdf
 
This is interesting. The guns with the (BTP) mark appear to be the later guns. Factory Tobin production seems to have ended with serial numbers in the high 19 thousands, and Crandall made guns (not just assembled stock) used a different serial number system. I agree that the mark is probably related to the barrel manufacturer, but whose mark is it? It is not Trojan (at least not like any Trojan mark I have ever seen), so who?

Tobin made a big deal about barrel steel, but from about 1915 onwards money was getting very tight.

There is not a lot of data on Tobin, and as time goes on it gets harder to recover. If you have any info, I urge you to share it so that this chapter of Canadian history can get the attention it deserves.

Sharptail
 
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