Tokarev conversion - 9mm to 7.62x25

kodiakjack

kodiakjack

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So a few years back, I wanted to make my way from long guns into hand guns so I picked up a Norinco NP-17 (two tone tok clone) in 9mm from the good folks at Marstar.

It got regular use at first - I took quite a few friends shooting and even joined a bullseye league. But other commitments eventually got in the way, and it eventually became a fixture in the safe.

I've been thinking about getting back into it, but for the amount of hand gunning I do, one gun is plenty. I've been wanting to upgrade to something with a little more wallup. I figured the natural choice would be to trade the 9mm Tok clone for a norinco .45 1911 clone.

But then I started looking at the numbers. When I chose the 9mm over the 7.62x25, I made the mistaken assumption that the 7.62 was a weak and out dated round left for dead by the communists. I had no idea it packed more oomph than the "mighty" .45acp.

So now it seems like the obvious choice is to get the components I need to convert my 9mm into 7.62.

I know plenty of people have made the opposite switch, but does anyone have experience reverting?

Aside from a barrel, what other components are needed?

Will the 9mm mag fit the 7.62x25 round?

Any other comments or input is appreciated. Also, I should clarify that by "wallup" and "oomph" I mean muzzle energy.

Here's the gun in question:












And some surprising (to me) ballistics tables:







 
Daaaa..... just buy a Tok and be done with it. They run like $200 for a refurb version or a little more for an essentially new unissued version.

Keep the 9mm as is for when the 7.62X25 ammo drought happens... and it will.

M
 
gnmontey said:
Daaaa..... just buy a Tok and be done with it. They run like $200 for a refurb version or a little more for an essentially new unissued version.

Keep the 9mm as is for when the 7.62X25 ammo drought happens... and it will.



M
Click to expand...


I guess I should have clarified: I am a cheap, cheap man. ;-)

Seriously though, thanks M that's a good suggestion if I can't find a barrel. Marstar has Toks in stock for $199.

If I take that route, do you (or anyone else) think that I could play tradesies with the barrel and mag? I like the fatter grips on the NP-17 and they'd probably come in handy with the more snappy 7.62 round.
 
Boy, I don't know if you can go from a 9mm specific implementation to a 7.62. The 9mm breach(?) may be shorter by design.

I have my doubts this is feasible, but am no expert.

Put it this way, a bbl and mag swap is going to cost as much as a referb Tok. Been there, done that, going 7.62 to 9mm. The 9mm bbl cost as much as
the gun did.

M
 
Personally I would have one of each. 9mm is for the left hand, or the woman in your life... 7.62 for yourself. You see it's not being cheap, it's successful planning to place a 9mm norinco under the tree for the mrs.
 
gnmontey said:
Boy, I don't know if you can go from a 9mm specific implementation to a 7.62. The 9mm breach(?) may be shorter by design.

I have my doubts this is feasible, but am no expert.

Put it this way, a bbl and mag swap is going to cost as much as a referb Tok. Been there, done that, going 7.62 to 9mm. The 9mm bbl cost as much as
the gun did.

M
Click to expand...


Just thinking out loud here... If you could modify your 7.62 to 9mm without any changes to the breach, would it not stand to reason that the breach in the 9mm platform would be identical?

And while I'm bending your ear, is there a difference in the mags? Is the spacer I see in my mag unique to the 9mm?
 
kodiakjack said:
So a few years back, I wanted to make my way from long guns into hand guns so I picked up a Norinco NP-17 (two tone tok clone) in 9mm from the good folks at Marstar.

It got regular use at first - I took quite a few friends shooting and even joined a bullseye league. But other commitments eventually got in the way, and it eventually became a fixture in the safe.

I've been thinking about getting back into it, but for the amount of hand gunning I do, one gun is plenty. I've been wanting to upgrade to something with a little more wallup. I figured the natural choice would be to trade the 9mm Tok clone for a norinco .45 1911 clone.

But then I started looking at the numbers. When I chose the 9mm over the 7.62x25, I made the mistaken assumption that the 7.62 was a weak and out dated round left for dead by the communists. I had no idea it packed more oomph than the "mighty" .45acp.

So now it seems like the obvious choice is to get the components I need to convert my 9mm into 7.62.

I know plenty of people have made the opposite switch, but does anyone have experience reverting?

Aside from a barrel, what other components are needed?

Will the 9mm mag fit the 7.62x25 round?

Any other comments or input is appreciated. Also, I should clarify that by "wallup" and "oomph" I mean muzzle energy.

Here's the gun in question:












And some surprising (to me) ballistics tables:







Click to expand...

I would gladly trade u one of my 762x25 tokarevs for your norinco 9mm .all u need to convert to 762x25 is a barrel and a 762x25 magazine ,
 
Last edited:
Custom2M4 said:
Personally I would have one of each. 9mm is for the left hand, or the woman in your life... 7.62 for yourself. You see it's not being cheap, it's successful planning to place a 9mm norinco under the tree for the mrs.
Click to expand...

I like the cut of your jib there fella.

She's bound to like that even more than the shop vac/leaf blower combo I got her last year.
 
gyw said:
I would gladly trade u one of my 762x25 tokarevs for your norinco 9mm
Click to expand...


A generous offer indeed! ;-)

However, I legitimately like my Norc. The look, the feel, the fact that that it hasn't failed to go bang since I got it.

That's why I'm eager to convert it as opposed to replace it.

Thanks though, lol.
 
A shorter round may enter a longer breech, a longer round may not be able to enter a shorter breach (not really sure breach is the correct term here).

The 7.62 is a longer round than a 9mm.

As for mags. I had success using 9mm in 7.62 mags, but the official 9mm mags are blocked length wise to accommodate the shorter round.

Like I said, I'm no expert so don't take my word on this, but it sounds dubious to me.

M
 
kodiakjack said:
A generous offer indeed! ;-)

However, I legitimately like my Norc. The look, the feel, the fact that that it hasn't failed to go bang since I got it.

That's why I'm eager to convert it as opposed to replace it.

Thanks though, lol.
Click to expand...

well I got a spare 762x25 barrel and mag
 
To convert your pistol to the oomphy 7,62x25 round, you would need a barrel and magazine from a regular Tokarev. Some people might opine that the front barrel bushing should go along with the barrel. That is it; as easy as taking it down (as you've pictured).

Given the relative scarcity of 9mm barrels in our saturated Tokarev market, it would not be difficult to find volunteers to do a straight swap.

Most Tok mag.s don't have the jazzy floor-plate of the NP-17, but that model uses a block in the back of the magazine to account for the shorter 9x19 cartridge, rather than a physically narrower mag. This means standard TT magazines fit. If you had a Norinco M213 I think that uses specific 9mm mag.s.

7,62mm cartridges are too long to fit in a blocked or narrow 9mm magazine, but not the other way 'round.
 
Thanks Red. I've been sifting through the interwebs since posting this, one got quite a few opinions both yay and nay about the swap. However, your post and the video have put my mind at ease. Thanks!

GYW, shoot me a pm with what you want for the tok barrel and mag. Do you have the bushing too? I'll check to see if the mrs. Has any room left in my Christmas stocking budget.

Cheers, thanks fellas!


[youtube]7lBLiSdY0PA[/youtube]
 
+1 with this idea. Unless you have time and more money to spend in troubleshooting your conversion, a refurb or an unissued TOK might be a better way to go. My mentor tried and was successful in converting a Super 38 1911 into a 7.62 X 25. It was very accurate but it took him months to iron-out the issues. He has the right tools from a Milling Machine to a Lathe and time to spend (semi-retired).


gnmontey said:
Daaaa..... just buy a Tok and be done with it. They run like $200 for a refurb version or a little more for an essentially new unissued version.

Keep the 9mm as is for when the 7.62X25 ammo drought happens... and it will.

M
Click to expand...
 
There may be an issue with the breech face but wiki say the rim on both are the same at 9.96mm other dimensions are ever so slightly differant.
You otherwise would need a barrel, recoil spring, barrel bushing. The 9mm mag may be shimmed to hold the 9 forward whether or not you can easily undo that. You could get a 7.62 parts kit from TradeEx for 159.00. No frame but it should have the slide so you would have a 7.62 slide complete with recoil spring. A postwar tok with 2 mags and a holster goes for 179.
http://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/post-war-russian-tokarev-tt33-pistol-762x25
So what everyone is trying to say is it would be just a lot easier to have one of each rather than trying to switch the bits around each time you shoot. Now also one small consideration is the older toks may have original springs. I bought a Polish one which is basically a new 60 year old gun and I ended up replacing the springs with a Wolf set as the hammer spring was too weak to reliably set off the primers. A surplus gun that may or may not have been refurbed may need at least a new hammer spring.

You have the RPal, registration is free. Shipping of a gun or parts will likely be the same. You will need another trigger lock.
80's production ammo is available so make a decision soon.
 
Beermaker said:
There may be an issue with the breech face but wiki say the rim on both are the same at 9.96mm other dimensions are ever so slightly differant.
You otherwise would need a barrel, recoil spring, barrel bushing. The 9mm mag may be shimmed to hold the 9 forward whether or not you can easily undo that. You could get a 7.62 parts kit from TradeEx for 159.00. No frame but it should have the slide so you would have a 7.62 slide complete with recoil spring. A postwar tok with 2 mags and a holster goes for 179.
http://www.tradeexcanada.com/content/post-war-russian-tokarev-tt33-pistol-762x25
So what everyone is trying to say is it would be just a lot easier to have one of each rather than trying to switch the bits around each time you shoot. Now also one small consideration is the older toks may have original springs. I bought a Polish one which is basically a new 60 year old gun and I ended up replacing the springs with a Wolf set as the hammer spring was too weak to reliably set off the primers. A surplus gun that may or may not have been refurbed may need at least a new hammer spring.

You have the RPal, registration is free. Shipping of a gun or parts will likely be the same. You will need another trigger lock.
80's production ammo is available so make a decision soon.
Click to expand...


You make a strong argument Beermaker. I hadn't considered that the barrel would be so expensive. In my digging, I'd found guys who mentioned finding 9mm barrels for their Toks for $36 bucks. But that's the states so...

Thanks for the link to tradex. I can't believe its only $179 for a pistol that's 30% more powerful than a .45acp and 400% cheaper to feed.

My biggest beef with the original Toks is the grips. I'm 6'4", 265lbs and have the hands to match. Even with the fatter grips on my norinco, my pinkie finger kind of slips off and dangles. But maybe a new old tok would be a good excuse to start a new woodworking project and I could make my own enlarged grips... Hmmmm. That's sounding better and better.
 
From what I remember of previous threads on the topic, the word is that the ejection window of a 9mm gun is shorter, and won't let you eject a whole, unfired 7.62 cartridge.
 
kg said:
From what I remember of previous threads on the topic, the word is that the ejection window of a 9mm gun is shorter, and won't let you eject a whole, unfired 7.62 cartridge.
Click to expand...

That's another angle to look at.
As for the grips they are short even my hands would like a little more to grab below the pinky but inexpensive gun, inexpensive ammo.
If you extend the grips you have to watch your access to install/remove the magazine. Perhaps a bumper on the bottom of the bottom plate to extend it for the longer grip. The Zastava M57 holds 9 so I think it's just that much longer for $295 at Marstar.

Oooo just saw this. It is Christmas time ya know.
http://www.marstar.ca/dynamic/product.jsp?productid=86643
 
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