Torn between a T97 and a CSA VZ 58 N/R

walleyed99

walleyed99

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I'm not telling, Sask
Just as the title says, I am torn. I want to enter the 5.56/223 world and seriously do not know what to do. The VZ 58 has had it issues but seems to have GREAT warranty support and is a damn ###y gun :) with tons of aftermarket stuff to throw at it. The T97 is just plain FUGLY but has a neat factor about it, with next to no accessories going for it save for a couple of SH!TTY scope mounts for cheap that leave you with a chin weld when shooting of a great looking upper from T97.ca that makes the gun look pretty cool and WAY more functional. And Alas I am sure 90 days or / 90 feet warranty (okay maybe a little more). I have handled both and most recently the T97 today and its neat but as I said FUGLY, but I am just not sure i can get around the odd ergonomics, weird mag release position and where the charging handle is located before the upper conversion. Any input people??????? Help me pick :)
 
You should maybe post this in the black rifle section. A mod will probably be by shortly to move it for you.

I actually have both of those guns!



I only just got the Type 97 and have not even fired it so my opinion on it is purely observation.

First, the .223, or I like to call it, the 5.56 Vz 58. Excellent rifle, More accurate than the 7.62x39 model with 55, or better, 62 grain ammunition. 45 grain and its all over the place. Mine had the bolt disassemble itself while in use. No problem there! Sent it to Movie Arms, they fixed 'er up good and fixed a few other things wrong with it. Currently waiting on a sight adjustment tool from CanAm since for some weird reason, the rifle now shoots high and left since its come back. It only took 3 weeks from start to finish and I live way on the other side of the country. Because of the firing pin issues, I decided to get snap caps for it since I can't help myself and I must dry fire it during down time from range sessions. We have a steel goat at my range at 300 meters. From the standing position, using the sling for support, I can nail that thing 3 out of 5 shots and general 5 shot groups are always around 3" and there is consistently 1 flyer per 5 shots. A guy in the states on the CZ Firearms forum experiences the same thing with the .223 model when using iron sights.

I tried the AR magwell adapter on this rifle. It was fun being able to just slide mags out and back in.... you like that don't you....yea...Anyways, the last round bolt hold open is a poor design on the AR magwell adapter. Its this tinny tab that some AR mags followers that are a little loose in the mag have the tendency to jump around the tab. Also, the Vz 58's bolt isn't very friendly to AR plastic followers. Over time, mine chipped the rear of the follower and the mag never held the bolt open again afterwards. I eventually got sick of it and switched back to original mags. The last round bolt open design for the original mags is much better.

As for the Type 97's ugliness, you get over it after a couple days of looking at it. As for the mag release issue, I've found two ways that work very well. One, you can change mags with your right hand instead of the left hand. The other way I learned from watching a QBZ 95 video of some recruits being shown how to uses the gun. The original mag release is behind the magwell. If you put your hand in the same position they change their mags on the QBZ-95, It doesn't take much effort to move your thumb over just a tiny bit to hit the mag release. I find this way better than using your right hand and apparently, the QBZ-97 mag release system is the same as our EMEI T97NSR and looks to me from watching some military videos on youtube, the intended way to release magazines. You can even keep the rifle on target this way and its not awkward or uncomfortable like you see some people do releasing the magazine from reaching around the front of the magwell.

I never have the safety on so the safety being located where it is, is not an issue for me.
 
It may come down to whether you want a bullpup styled gun or a real rifle. Just kidding. Some people hold a bullpup and love it right away. Others can't get past the ergonomics that are very different.
 
Having had both, I found the T97 much better to move around with, especially in tight spaces because of the bullpup configuration. The longer NR barrel can be awkward at times on the VZ, I think the 11.8 would be much nicer, but I haven't used one as of yet. I didn't like the sights, or the inability to add optics (Without adding an FTU) on the T97. I also found the magwell/feed ramps were picky depending on magazines. I thought the fit and finish was much better on the VZ than the T97 as well. I sold the T97 after a few trips to the range, and still have the VZ. It's also weird for adding optics in the fact it sometimes tough to get a cheek weld depending on how you set it up. That being said, the iron sights are much more forgiving, IMO anyways. Personally, I'd get another VZ in 7.62 if I had to pick between the two again.
 
You can dress up a Vz pretty:

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You can do some similar things with T97 flattop, but the mag release is still a puzzle for me.
 
TV-PressPass said:
You can do some similar things with T97 flattop, but the mag release is still a puzzle for me.
Click to expand...

Try changing mags from behind the mag well not from in front like I see everyone do. Just like as if your going to go press in the original mag release of the QBZ 95 but just reach your thumb over a tiny bit more. Works really well. Trying to do it with your right hand always leaves me searching for the release. Doing it this way, my thumb always lands on the release and you can change mags while still aiming.
 
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