Toz T03-12
- Thread starter oldguner
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I have to ask: how is that possible? I'm reminded of a story an enthusiastic but naive shooter told me. He said there was a guy he knew who was such a good shot that he could shoot one-inch groups with bulk ammo at 100 yards with a certain Cooey rifle.
A rifle that is really accurate no matter what ammo is used is unusual to say the least. Is there a secret that some manufacturers possess that enables them to make a rifle that shoots every ammo well? Neither Anschutz nor any other high end rifles will work magic on bulk ammo to turn it into gold. The idea that some rifles can be deadly accurate no matter what ammo is put through them is surely a false one.
I had a rifle similar to the OP's. I didn't shoot it enough to discover just how accurate it was.
i suspect a tighter choke then anyone else uses, also they are hammer forged barrels, some people say its a liner that the barrel is hammered over, if thats the case they did a great job because I still can't find the seam. Oh and american eagle isn't bulk ammo btw
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Dave is correct on ALL counts. We both laugh when people can't get decent groups from the ''Bulk Packs'' Win 333, Federal 525 etc.
When factories are pumping out 6+ Million rounds per shift, where do you think all the blemish or 'b' stock ammo goes? It does not go into nice trays and boxes I can assure you.
It goes into 'bulk packs'
JFYI.
On another note, if ever in Idaho, call ahead and get a tour of the CCI Plant. it is worth the visit!!!
Is there any evidence that Soviet hammer forged barrels are superior to, say, Czech hammer forged barrels? The Soviet-era rifles such as the one in question did not have the added cost of a special liner in the barrel. They were, to be sure, a relatively accurate rifle, but they were designed and made to be inexpensive. As far as employing a choke in their barrels, is there any evidence for that? Indeed, is there anything to indicate that any small bore rifles have choked barrels? Custom made barrels will be cut from blanks so that if there is a tighter end on the bore it becomes the muzzle; still Anschutz and other target rifle makers do not confirm that they use choked barrels.
And it should be noted that, while American Eagle may not be bulk, it is certainly not match quality ammo either.
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I'll put my Walther KKM UIT Special with AE .40gn lrn against any ammo other than Tenex or Center-X in 50m and 100m. In fact, over 100 rounds of all kind of ammo AE had less than 19fps Standard Deviation in velocity.
Only Tenex, Midas+, and one of the Aguila's posted better numbers. And all those are 4-7x the cost.
Are you sure? American Eagle 40 grain lead round nose ammo is better than any ammo other than Tenex or Center X and Midas Plus and "one of the Aguila's" (although why this Mexican ammo is included is an odd mystery)? Just to be clear, is this the ammo to which you refer?
Surely, you jest or are given to hyperbole. Perhaps you forget that HV ammo doesn't compete well with SV ammo, especially as distance increases. Not only that, RWS makes a variety of match ammo, including top-of-the-line R50 which would undoubtedly perform much better in your Walther than AE ammo. Eley makes match ammo other than Tenex that would be a better candidate for accuracy than AE, as does Lapua/SK. Federal makes 922A and 711B SV ammo that ought to shoot better than AE.
Are you sure? American Eagle 40 grain lead round nose ammo is better than any ammo other than Tenex or Center X and Midas Plus and "one of the Aguila's" (although why this Mexican ammo is included is an odd mystery)? Just to be clear, is this the ammo to which you refer?
Surely, you jest or are given to hyperbole. Perhaps you forget that HV ammo doesn't compete well with SV ammo, especially as distance increases. Not only that, RWS makes a variety of match ammo, including top-of-the-line R50 which would undoubtedly perform much better in your Walther than AE ammo. Eley makes match ammo other than Tenex that would be a better candidate for accuracy than AE, as does Lapua/SK. Federal makes 922A and 711B SV ammo that ought to shoot better than AE.
try it for yourself, I have 2 rifles that shoot it so well I have never bothered trying anything match related in them, if photobucket was working proper I'd dig out the target and post it, 10 shots at 50 meters under a dime
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Are you sure? American Eagle 40 grain lead round nose ammo is better than any ammo other than Tenex or Center X and Midas Plus and "one of the Aguila's" (although why this Mexican ammo is included is an odd mystery)? Just to be clear, is this the ammo to which you refer?
Surely, you jest or are given to hyperbole. Perhaps you forget that HV ammo doesn't compete well with SV ammo, especially as distance increases. Not only that, RWS makes a variety of match ammo, including top-of-the-line R50 which would undoubtedly perform much better in your Walther than AE ammo. Eley makes match ammo other than Tenex that would be a better candidate for accuracy than AE, as does Lapua/SK. Federal makes 922A and 711B SV ammo that ought to shoot better than AE.
I'm not kidding. Noy even a little bit. We spent more than 300.00 on different ammo that day to try all types. Chronograph was a CEDM2 . We chronoed the 100 rounds through known 'good guns' that will make dime sided holes with Tenex.
Guns Used : Anschutz 64 Action HB, Ruger MKII MK10, Walther Running Boar, Browning Silhouette, Smith and Wesson Model 46.
We had enough ammo to run the test twice, and with the results we got, we ran the test twice!
I am willing to give the Chrono and error factor of 3%. That said, the numbers don;t lie. The test day was as close to perfect as we could get, elev 3200' ASL, DA was 3000'ASL
My own theory on Why Tenex and the other top end ammo bet it, is because of the high waxing used to 'glue; the bullet to the rifling. That and their finer powder flake, better rim consitency etc etc, and slightly different nose, and more consistent bullet heel.
Top shelf ammo had a SD in velocity in the 7-9 fps range. And grouped accordingly well.
The first time through was a surprise, or we thought it could be equipment vagaries, so we ran it a second time to be sure, and that validated the results.
All groups were fired to paper through the Chronograph at distance, and verified by one other person who loaded the ammo into mags. Which took the shooter ability and ammo expectation out of the equation.
Of course nobody has the serious cash it would take to ''waste'' 50 rounds at a time thru each gun to re-condition the gun to that particular ammunition, clean out waxinf from other ammo, then do all this shooting. There neither enough cash or hours in the day to complete a test like this. Plus I was shooting, and would not have the eyes left to crank out consistent groups for 300 rounds of testing and 300 rounds of fouling.
Because of that, feel free to add another 2% margin of error.
When we did this testing AE was 17.99/brick!!!!
Will I tell people American Eagle will ALWAYS shoot this way under all conditions in all firearms? Of course not. That is what you buy TENEX and Gold+ or Midas for.
But I will say if the testing irritates the rimfire ammo snobs (and you better believe it does!!!) that's too bad. The data was good, the method of collecting the numbers was sound, and the results, whilst surprising were good new for me and others who shoot a lot.
We have contests. Blank sheet of paper, shoot 1 round. now put the next 9 shots through the hole. we do this 5 times each. Loser buys the coffee at Tims afterwards.
This is where the Ammo Snob comes in . Match 54 Actions, Blueprinted, Bloop Tube, 36X or HP scope, and a brick of Tenex. Meanwhile, cheapo me comes with my Annie, or Running Boar, or my KKM UIT, and sends them into FITS because they lost, and I am shooting Apetures to SCOPE (at 50m.... 100 i need a scope to see the bullet hole)
With Pistol and Iron Sights for everyone, Anschutz Exemplars, Buckmark Silhouettes, Smith and Wesson Model 46's, 41's, Drulov's, Thompson Contenders, same story.
Whilst hyperbole is a useful literal useage for things extolled beyond the plausible, I do stand be the results. I leave it to the reader, and the shooter to draw their own conclusions.
If you decide to do this, have someone else load for you to take the 'ammo perception' out of the equation.
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PS, YoDave, I am sorry, I have to let it out once a year. Keep the tradition alive you know
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you have no idea how green i turn when you remind me of that. grr.
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I'll see if i kept all the work. I do tend to throw sh_t out once curiousity has been served. But I will look around. BTW, I am down to my last 3 full racks (15,000) rounds of AE... so if you see any around....
